[WoW]WotLK

[krax]

Originally Posted by Dumar

lol, so now not only are game design decisions affected by the bean counting business suits and lil timmy the lowest common denominator, they're also affected by the other games in the respective megaconglomerate entity.

tell me again how game designers are nothing more than 2nd grade teachers?

Second grade teachers do significantly less 3-d modeling.

WoW going hardcore would be a loss for everyone. WoW would lose subscriptions because casuals out-number the hardcore. ActivisionBlizzard would sell less games, because people would be busy with WoW. The genre would do worse because people wouldn't have the time to try out new MMO's. The game industry would do worse because people would be too busy to buy other games. The casuals would loose a game to play. Even the basement dwellers would loose by having their compulsions/addiction fueled. They would be better off playing WoW casually, and taking up softball. And you, well you would have less time to troll message boards.

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by krax

Second grade teachers do significantly less 3-d modeling.

WoW going hardcore would be a loss for everyone. WoW would lose subscriptions because casuals out-number the hardcore. ActivisionBlizzard would sell less games, because people would be busy with WoW. The genre would do worse because people wouldn't have the time to try out new MMO's. The game industry would do worse because people would be too busy to buy other games. The casuals would loose a game to play. Even the basement dwellers would loose by having their compulsions/addiction fueled. They would be better off playing WoW casually, and taking up softball. And you, well you would have less time to troll message boards.

you're saying good game design makes people play the game less and do other things more.

woe for this industry, woe.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Dumar

you're saying good game design makes people play the game less and do other things more.

woe for this industry, woe.

Good game design allows you to do more in less time. As in you don't have to poopsock to accomplish menial tasks, you fucking dumbass.

[possible]

Whoops, forget this reply, misread a post.

[krax]

Originally Posted by Dumar

you're saying good game design makes people play the game less and do other things more.

woe for this industry, woe.

That's why there are daily quests, rested exp and lock out timers. Developers have to pace the game to keep players from getting burnt out (and Koreans from killing themselves.)

Now obviously there is room for hardcore games in the genre, just not as the top dog.

[spronk]

They should allow you to stack wood in the back of your house in WoW, that would be awesome.

[Rusty Dagger]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Good game design allows you to do more in less time. As in you don't have to poopsock to accomplish menial tasks, you fucking dumbass.

Good game design would also allow someone who spends alot of time in game to actually be able to spend that time constructively and not just have to wait until some sort of reset.

Originally Posted by krax

That's why there are daily quests, rested exp and lock out timers. Developers have to pace the game to keep players from getting burnt out (and Koreans from killing themselves.)

Daily quest limits (max per day and 1 of each quest per day), raid locks are there to pace, you're correct. That's not the point. The point is to provide more than 30 minutes of things you can do on a daily basis outside of a raid that actually meaningfully contribute to your character. Right now the only things I need to do each day are: jc daily, 6x hodir quests (and I'll be exalted in 2 days so I won't even need them), titansteel cooldown, icy prism cooldown, and .. done. Some people can sprinkle in arenas or bg's, but that's fucking IT. I need nothing from any heroic; I need no money since it buys nothing useful and is incredibly plentiful anyway. What else is there to do?

I'm supposed to go buy multiple games just to enjoy myself for a couple hours a day? Makes about as much sense to me as driving your first car on weekdays and your other car on weekends since you obviously need at least 2. I mean who could honestly expect to get ALL of their driving needs from just 1 car?

[Shabado]

Good game design means the time you spend in the game is enjoyable, not that you can spend endless hours in that game and always have something which you deem to be worthwhile to do.

If suddenly they added a bunch of +1 stat AA's you would always have something to do, but it'd be terrible fucking design. Except Makata would love it, of course.

Your car analogy is retarded. It's not Blizzards job to provide you unlimited entertainment because you are paying them a menial sum every month any more than it is the job of my soccer team to provide me with it because I own a season ticket.

[Rusty Dagger]

Except a season pass expressly gives you X games, each of which lasts for Y minutes. You spend $Z and you receive X*Y minutes of soccer entertainment. WoW isn't a 1 time fee. If you buy it off the shelf and it has a limited time then fine, that makes perfect sense. But paying the monthly fee means it's something that's supposed to not have an expiration date.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

Real life analogies do not make for good game design.

[BurnemWizfyre]

I can deal with running out of things to do in any given reset, thats fine and i actually enjoy not feeling like i could be doing something. The thing i do not like however is the rate at which new content is put in the game, Sony for all its flaws sure knew how to churn out expansion after expansion.

I guess thats a whole other debate, quantity vs quality. Blizzard isn't much better then Sony in my opinion any longer, Take a good long look at what was actually given to us in WoTLK. We were given a rehashed Naxx, and 3 Onyxia style fights. The only difference i see between Blizzard and Sony is that Sony would have lied and claimed that Ulduar and Icecrown were finished and just cockblocked us till it was ready where as Blizzard just makes you wait for 6 fucking months for them to finish it. Which is better i don't know, but they both fucking suck imo.

[Scorp]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Good game design allows you to do more in less time. As in you don't have to poopsock to accomplish menial tasks, you fucking dumbass.

How the fuck does Dumar not understand this..

[Dumar]

okay, glad you cleared that up. good game design now means you can do a bunch of easy activities quickly. good game design means you can finish them up in order to go play another game or outside to play softball. good game design means less difficulty ('tedium'!) and more accessibility. you know, we gotta let as many people win the game as possible.

2nd grade teachers or glorified babysitters is all you are; all of you and anyone who adheres to this UTTERLY SHITTY gameplay philosophy.

[Runnen]

Originally Posted by BurnemWizfyre

I can deal with running out of things to do in any given reset, thats fine and i actually enjoy not feeling like i could be doing something. The thing i do not like however is the rate at which new content is put in the game, Sony for all its flaws sure knew how to churn out expansion after expansion.

I guess thats a whole other debate, quantity vs quality. Blizzard isn't much better then Sony in my opinion any longer, Take a good long look at what was actually given to us in WoTLK. We were given a rehashed Naxx, and 3 Onyxia style fights. The only difference i see between Blizzard and Sony is that Sony would have lied and claimed that Ulduar and Icecrown were finished and just cockblocked us till it was ready where as Blizzard just makes you wait for 6 fucking months for them to finish it. Which is better i don't know, but they both fucking suck imo.

I played both EverQuest and World of Warcraft, and it is undeniable that Sony churned out expansions like there was no tomorrow. But I do disagree that WoW's expansions aren't good enough to justify the long wait, compared to EQ's.

To justify this, you mention that "all we got was a rehashed Naxx and 3 Onyxia-style fights", but I really doubt all the time spent between Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King was used to create those raid instances, and keep in mind that raiding content is only moderately used by a majority of their player base. They created a huge continent (larger than Burning Crusade), upgraded some graphics (translucent ice/water and lighting effects), they created phasing, the vehicle interface, the destructible buildings, and about 800 quests, along with one of the most praised "newbie" zones ever, the Death Knight starting area. Of course, they also had to try and balance the brand new class (didn't work out too well there!).

I did enjoy EverQuest a lot back then, but I was looking the other day at the website of some guilds that still play it, and I see the same mob models (Mata'Muram style) that were used 9 expansions ago (not an exageration).

Blizzard has always been more than slow about delivering new content and patches, but you cannot possibly compare the overall quality of the finished product to any other competitive company.

[Fog]

Originally Posted by BurnemWizfyre

I can deal with running out of things to do in any given reset, thats fine and i actually enjoy not feeling like i could be doing something. The thing i do not like however is the rate at which new content is put in the game, Sony for all its flaws sure knew how to churn out expansion after expansion.

If you run out of things to do, then why don't you fucking unsubscribe in between content releases? Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Rusty Dagger

I'm supposed to go buy multiple games just to enjoy myself for a couple hours a day? Makes about as much sense to me as driving your first car on weekdays and your other car on weekends since you obviously need at least 2. I mean who could honestly expect to get ALL of their driving needs from just 1 car?

What are you talking about? What does World of Warcraft have to do with a car?