[WoW]WotLK

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by dak

Wow, according to that Warlocks win at patchwerk. That kinda motivates into getting mine past 74 and retiring my tank DK.

Seeing how destruction is getting a nice buff with 3.1 and with duel spec I will be able to have a PVP spec and PVE raid spec (much better than being expected to have 2 pve raid specs imho).

I believe the simulator for 3.1 on EJ shows destruction as the worst specs still, but much closer to the rest. Highest is demonology then affliction, all within 600DPS of each other, which seems like a rather nice result. Demon obviously is more prone to getting fucked in the ass if your felguard gets owned by a random boss ability.

Rogues suck currently, in 3.1 they seem to be doing fine if PTR is any indication, actually quite a few fights had a rogue as #1 which is how it should be most of the time. DKs are being nerfed into balance so I don't think in 3.1 you'll see DKs on top of the charts against barring specific fights(lots of movement+AEing would probably make a HB deep frost spec pretty awesome).

As for CC, they're adding trash that can be CCed in Ulduar, but I think their plan is to only CC a couple of mobs per pull and AE the rest, or actually do some real healing. Currently you don't CC because 1healer can manage to heal one tank tanking a whole pack of trash, so there's absolutely no need. Combination of mobs being too easy, and tanks having less issues with AEing. But I fully expect Ulduar farming after a few weeks will still be no CC(or maybe that one mob in certain packs that rape the shit out of everyone so no need to mark) too. It's not a big issue in raids, it's more annoying that all the 5man content requires absolutely no CC.

[Cybsled]

Well CC was a doubled edged sword in TBC in terms of the Heroic 5mans. Pre-nerf Shattered Halls was extremely difficult w/o CC I seem to remember.

[Araxen]

One of the worst myths in WoW is Rogue's need to be the #1 slot DPS class. It's such an absurb myth. Any of the pure dps classes should all be viable #1 slot dps not just rogues.

[Zbkuk]

Originally Posted by dak

Wow, according to that Warlocks win at patchwerk. That kinda motivates into getting mine past 74 and retiring my tank DK.

Seeing how destruction is getting a nice buff with 3.1 and with duel spec I will be able to have a PVP spec and PVE raid spec (much better than being expected to have 2 pve raid specs imho).

Keep in mind all the warlock patchwerk parses on WMO are with doomguards and insanely fast kills where bloodlust is up most of the fight. Apparently doomguards do shitloads of damage but (as of right now) they have a 1 hr cooldown to summon. I think that's getting lowered to 30 mins in 3.1, but still.

[darksensei]

Originally Posted by Clug

Rogues are OK in PvE? Pass the crack pipe jack. Mages are fine but rogues? No.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Pure DPS class failure.

Just looking at this, I'd argue shadow priests need a buff. But that's an interesting link for sure.

[BobDole901]

Originally Posted by Pyros

I believe the simulator for 3.1 on EJ shows destruction as the worst specs still, but much closer to the rest. Highest is demonology then affliction, all within 600DPS of each other, which seems like a rather nice result. Demon obviously is more prone to getting fucked in the ass if your felguard gets owned by a random boss ability.

According to the Simcraft models posted on EJ, 0/40/31 (using imp) is running the highest by a couple hundred DPS*, but like you said everything is within 600 DPS of each other, so play what spec you want with everything this equal.

Originally Posted by Zbkuk

Apparently doomguards do shitloads of damage but (as of right now) they have a 1 hr cooldown to summon. I think that's getting lowered to 30 mins in 3.1, but still.

The cooldown on the DG is being lowered to 30 minutes, but it's damage is being reduced by 30%. Still, while it is available an affliction spec using the DG 53/0/18 is slightly higher than the demo/destro spec quited above.

*Some of the warlocks are mentioning going dual spec in the affDG and demo/destro to take advantage of the DG while it's off CD and turn back to the top DPS spec when it's not available.

I run a deep destro spec currently 0/14/57, and am actually looking forward to the demo/destro spec because it's more streamlined and it should boost my DPS by about 1000 according to the Simcraft numbers. Bliz is still probably going to announce like 18 more things changing anyway so who knows what the future holds.

[Daezuel]

That link just isn't very accurate overall, ret paladins for instance, there is no way that is the average of the top 50 worldwide. Obv this isn't counting the large number of guilds that use WWS, but just looking at parses for ret I've seen MUCH higher numbers for Patchwerk and I routinely do far better than that average number.

Warlocks are probably close to top on that fight with doomguards out but there are ways to beat them if your kill is fast enough. Maybe I'm just reading that list wrong?

[Northerner]

Statistics are wonderful but yeah, ones like those can be tough to really parse properly. It might be more indicative of average raid composition, 'standard' strats, buff/debuff usage, itemization flaws or flat out item/mechanics bugs for Live results.

It's interesting and all but let's face it, none of the class balance shit really means anything until and unless there is content that challenges and causes class stacking or preferential use. As long as you can be doing 20-man undying runs in Naxx while gearing up alts and rerolls it just doesn't really matter.

[Kirun]

Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn

CC in raid trash clears is tiresome. There are better ways to make the clear 'interesting' besides three mages marking targets every other pull.

Clears are only ever interesting the first few times, no matter what kind of "fun" gimmicks you give them. After that, give me my goddamn AoEs, because that shit gets tedious as hell.

[Aaubert]

Originally Posted by Kirun

Clears are only ever interesting the first few times, no matter what kind of "fun" gimmicks you give them. After that, give me my goddamn AoEs, because that shit gets tedious as hell.

i agree about tedium... but killing 1000 trash mobs a night, and only 20 of them are slimes that you interact with differently, it blurs into nothingness quickly.

[Twobit Whore]

Needs more guantlets imo. But actually challenging. Things that you can do quickly if you get it, but fail on miserably if you don't.

Or lava packs. Always room for 20 lava packs you fight the same way every time between each boss.

[Araxen]

Background downloader for the live servers is downloading patch 3.1, but most likely it's just the zone files and shit. Can't be too far away though.

[Torvon]

Alright this may be a little off topic, but I'm not about to make an entirely new thread for this one question. I haven't really been keeping up with WoW for over a year, but a few of my friends and I are interested in starting up again. We all have old accounts that have TBC activated on them but none of us have WotLK. There will probably be 3-5 of us. Anyway the question is what is the best way to go about reactivating? Do you still get a free month if you invite a friend to reactivate? Or would it be better for all of us to start trial accounts and use the increased experience from inviting a friend?

[brekk]

Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn

Hell I'm having fun leveling my enhancement shaman just because she can heal herself. That's neat for me!

It's retardedly good now that shaman's and pally's both have instant heal talents. It make it so easy to go from mob to mob non-stop, or be capable fo soloing quest mobs that normally require a group.

Self sufficiency is fun.

[Rusty Dagger]

Originally Posted by Clug

Rogues are OK in PvE? Pass the crack pipe jack. Mages are fine but rogues? No.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Pure DPS class failure.

What the fuck is "pure dps class" even supposed to account for at this point in the game? Some entitlement due to the fact you can't cast a heal or wear a shield? TotT is very useful and you're an incredibly self-reliant class. If subtlety was replaced with holy, would you really give a fuck while raiding? Would you suddenly change your tune, "Naw it's cool man, some rogues can heal so my damage can suffer for it, np." Bull and shit. You have had all the time in the world to reroll to any of these classes you seem to envy who can fill in all these splendid roles (pro tip: paladins and druids can do ALL THREE!). But you haven't. Here's the breakdown based on avg dps and avg rank:

DK  5709    MAG 2.41
MAG 5634    DK  2.88
WAR 5529    WAR 3.53
WLK 5473    WLK 3.71
ROG 5287    ROG 5.82
HUN 5165    SHM 6.24
SHM 5147    HUN 6.29
PAL 5002    PAL 7.24
PRI 4816    PRI 8.06
DRU 4799    DRU 8.82

Notice where you are in that picture? 5th on both charts. With 10 classes this puts you .. wait for it .. ABOVE average statistically.* The highest a druid got on ANY fight was 6th. Yet somehow this is okay with you. Where's the cat's utility? Fury provides the same crit buff minus a mostly trivial heal. Being able to shift to bear "in case shit" happens is a pretty weak excuse. Hey, your strength is if the other 24 people are sucking ass, you get to pull the extra weight to make up for it!

You can bet your ass every one of those dk's and warriors were specced and geared for dps. If they pulled aggro they'd die in maybe 1 more hit than you. Neither is much good at all mid-combat switching to tank mode.

This charts shows that maybe you could use a slight buff and since I DKDC if 3.1 is addressing that, I won't comment on it. But you certianly don't need any sweeping changes. Nothing in this game shows you deserve #1 unquestionably. Nothing shows you even deserve top 3 unquestionably.

* (1 + 2 + 3 .. + 10) / 10 = 5.5, not 5. Yes it matters.