[WoW]WotLK

[Pyros]

Maybe, just maybe, they balance around pve as usual, and retadins are rather low dps in raids? And I believe retadins don't use seal of blood for pvp, sucks too much hp when you judge, and command is a 100%crit if you judge on stunned targets.

But arenas having dominating classes, that's quite new. It didn't happen before with soul link locks, resto druids and glaive rogues. Stop playing wow for pvp, they already have trouble balancing dps classes against static raid bosses, let alone against each other.

[Janx]

Originally Posted by Rhym

How in the fuck are the buffing Retadin damage. I am blown away. This hybrid class already tops the damage meters and has the most insane burst train in PvP and now they are giving it basically a 6% overall damage boost from Vengeance and another 5% damage boost on seal of the blood/martyr. Are they retarded? Yes.

Do you realize how shitty their single target dps is, ESPECIALLY vs non undead/demon targets (and I'm sure theres gonna be lots of those in ulduar amirite). It isnt their burst that will kill you in arena, its the fact that they have such huge mitigation to avoid dying with bubble/ibf/ams.

I dont even want to get into the whole Seal of Blood/Martyr thing because the entire mechanic is fucking retarded. When you do more damage to yourself then a tank takes from a boss..yeah somethings fucked up.

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by Pyros

Maybe, just maybe, they balance around pve as usual, and retadins are rather low dps in raids? And I believe retadins don't use seal of blood for pvp, sucks too much hp when you judge, and command is a 100%crit if you judge on stunned targets.

But arenas having dominating classes, that's quite new. It didn't happen before with soul link locks, resto druids and glaive rogues. Stop playing wow for pvp, they already have trouble balancing dps classes against static raid bosses, let alone against each other.

Maybe some people enjoy WoW and enjoy the pvp side more. Pvp and pve could be mostly balanced if Blizzard wasn't completely fucking retarded.

For fucks sake even games like City of Heroes figured this shit out years ago, "you know what, if we just made powers operate differently under a pve and pvp flag, holy shit its much much easier to balance pvp without fucking over pve too!!".

Exhibit A: Mesmerize from CoH: Not overly powerful in pve as a powerful mez effect, but would be in pvp so the duration and effects are drastically different and reduced. All done with their 10 dollar a week budget. All the problems like recent rets and hunters who have historically been their polar opposite (weak in pvp but too strong in pve dps) would go away. I don't see why the fuck they dont just give in and stop trying, their current implementation is never going to work and it would please both crowds if they did it this way.

[Jabberwhacky]

You can tell they've really done their homework, making Sleep last 27.938 seconds instead of the imba 27.939 seconds. One thousandth of a second is all it takes!

And can someone explain the appeal of Ret/DK power duo? I'm not really seeing the awesome burst potential of any DK.

[XI-]

Originally Posted by Janx

Do you realize how shitty their single target dps is, ESPECIALLY vs non undead/demon targets (and I'm sure theres gonna be lots of those in ulduar amirite). It isnt their burst that will kill you in arena, its the fact that they have such huge mitigation to avoid dying with bubble/ibf/ams.

I dont even want to get into the whole Seal of Blood/Martyr thing because the entire mechanic is fucking retarded. When you do more damage to yourself then a tank takes from a boss..yeah somethings fucked up.

4800 DPS is shitty now?

[Agraza]

I want to see the parse of you doing more damage to yourself than the target is doing to the tank. This does not include Loatheb/Thaddius. Don't be retarded.

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky

You can tell they've really done their homework, making Sleep last 27.938 seconds instead of the imba 27.939 seconds. One thousandth of a second is all it takes!

And can someone explain the appeal of Ret/DK power duo? I'm not really seeing the awesome burst potential of any DK.

A 50 second mez (pve)vs a 4 second one in pvp is kind of a slight difference since they realized long ass CCs basically fucked it all up. Yea, you have to learn a whole new set of rules on how things operate but if people are too fucking stupid to get that, well they shouldnt be pvping in the first place. For pve players who choose not to pvp, it doesn't affect them at all. This system they have does not work and never, ever will.

[Lowk]

Originally Posted by Agraza

I want to see the parse of you doing more damage to yourself than the target is doing to the tank. This does not include Loatheb/Thaddius. Don't be retarded.

If that is the Xi i think it is, i am more than sure he is a 100% truthful.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky

You can tell they've really done their homework, making Sleep last 27.938 seconds instead of the imba 27.939 seconds. One thousandth of a second is all it takes!

And can someone explain the appeal of Ret/DK power duo? I'm not really seeing the awesome burst potential of any DK.

Seeing as how rune strike has hit my resto druid partner for 7k in arena, followed up by removal of hots, then a gargoyle criting for 3.5k...yeah I think pve geared unholy dk's have burst. I actually play as Ret, the only OP thing I can think about Ret is perhaps if you team them with someone that has the same kind of burst.

We routinely have several minute matches because healers can basically tank me all day long at this point. What perhaps is OP is the new human pvp racial trinket. Allows Ret to play with 2 high dps pve trinkets such as a mirror of truth and a bandits insignia. Not sure what they were thinking with that.

Ret dmg in pvp can only be seen as OP in battlegrounds against terribly geared players or when it's in addition to another burst class that has ways of shutting down heals. (ms/pummel/kick/earthshock/cs/whatever the dk silence is called)

I have hit 5200+ dmg on patch, but thats far below the 6500 the hunters put out. This is also a fight where I get to use 2 undead abilities that are useless against anything not undead. Our AOE dps is good because of DS and Consecrate. Single target vs non-undead? Well, if you're playing a pure dps class and I beat you, you are bad. (oh shucks below the dual wield DK's now too) Many classes can hit over 6k dps on Patch, I'm not sure Ret can.

[XI-]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

Seeing as how rune strike has hit my resto druid partner for 7k in arena, followed up by removal of hots, then a gargoyle criting for 3.5k...yeah I think pve geared unholy dk's have burst. I actually play as Ret, the only OP thing I can think about Ret is perhaps if you team them with someone that has the same kind of burst.

We routinely have several minute matches because healers can basically tank me all day long at this point. What perhaps is OP is the new human pvp racial trinket. Allows Ret to play with 2 high dps pve trinkets such as a mirror of truth and a bandits insignia. Not sure what they were thinking with that.

Ret dmg in pvp can only be seen as OP in battlegrounds against terribly geared players or when it's in addition to another burst class that has ways of shutting down heals. (ms/pummel/kick/earthshock/cs/whatever the dk silence is called)

I have hit 5200+ dmg on patch, but thats far below the 6500 the hunters put out. This is also a fight where I get to use 2 undead abilities that are useless against anything not undead. Our AOE dps is good because of DS and Consecrate. Single target vs non-undead? Well, if you're playing a pure dps class and I beat you, you are bad. (oh shucks below the dual wield DK's now too) Many classes can hit over 6k dps on Patch, I'm not sure Ret can.

Did you really compare yourself to broken BM hunters?

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by XI-

Did you really compare yourself to broken BM hunters?

Here I'll link my friends guilds WWS, tell me where my 5219 or something comes in...BM HUNTERS ONLY HUH?

Wow Web Stats

[XI-]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

Here I'll link my friends guilds WWS, tell me where my 5219 or something comes in...BM HUNTERS ONLY HUH?

Wow Web Stats

What was the fight duration on your 5219 genius? Do you understand how cooldown leverage on short duration fights work? Do you also understand that Blizzard flat out said that hybrids (yes ret paladins) were going to do less than pure DPS classes.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by XI-

What was the fight duration on your 5219 genius? Do you understand how cooldown leverage on short duration fights work? Do you also understand that Blizzard flat out said that hybrids (yes ret paladins) were going to do less than pure DPS classes.

So Dk's,Warriors,Druids, and Priests are pure dps classes now?

Yes I understand how the length of the fight affects dps, our fight was well under 3 minutes as well. If you can find some WWS's of a ret doing far more dmg than I can manage I'd like to see it.

(Oh and in no way in my above posts was I complaining about ret dmg in pve...just pointing out the facts, we are nowhere near the top dps class and thats the truth.)

edit - my grammar is top dps however.

[Zbkuk]

Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky

And can someone explain the appeal of Ret/DK power duo? I'm not really seeing the awesome burst potential of any DK.

DKs have great burst but it does require a bit of setup. They need diseases up and 2 blood runes converted to death runes, pop gargoyle(preferably with an AP trinket or proc up, the garg only checks your AP at the time of summoning and uses that value for the whole duration), and then they can just scourge strike 3x in a row, use empowered rune weapon, and scourge strike a couple more times. If they have something attacking them or can taunt a pet so that rune strike can be thrown in this mix it gets even nastier. Scourge strike is all shadow damage too so armor doesn't mitigate that shit at all. It however can be partially resisted by shadow resistance buffs, which is why you'll see top DKs gemming spell pen.

Between hoj, strangulate(which is bugged, silence duration reducing talents actually increase the duration of strangulate right now), and mind freeze the combo can blowup a healer extremely fast and that healer can only keep themselves up with instants, which probably won't be enough. The ret obviously has bubble and freedom to keep both of them mobile and on target, and DKs have shit loads of survivability cooldowns to stay alive with. Both of them can basically avoid being CCed for quite a long time while dishing out a ton of damage.

[XI-]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

So Dk's,Warriors,Druids, and Priests are pure dps classes now?

Yes I understand how the length of the fight affects dps, our fight was well under 3 minutes as well. If you can find some WWS's of a ret doing far more dmg than I can manage I'd like to see it.

Here let me humor you.

1. Hunter - Nerfed
2. DW DK - Nerfed
3. HaT Rogue - Nerfed
4. Hunter - Nerfed
5. Mage - Extreme Damage Amp with High Buff Uptime
6. Moonkin - 5315, within normal hybrid variance (skill/crits/etc)
7. Warlock - DPS Class
8. Warrior - Being nerfed, deep wounds, other nerfs inc.
7. Spriest - 5202 seems pretty similar to your 5219