[WoW]WotLK

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Vinen

No idea how people can have trouble with this fight.... it's a complete joke.

Thaddius is "hard" because unlike every other Naxx fight, you can't have the 5 idiots in your guild die and then just beat it anyway with the other 20. You simply won't have the DPS to kill him if you lose five polarity buff stacks.

[chu]

Originally Posted by Needless

ahh yeah i thought Raz was the only change with the MC totems but jesus christ doing that with 40 people would be brutal.. youre almost guaranteed to have one idiot in there to fuck something up

Most decent guilds got by just fine.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Needless

ahh yeah i thought Raz was the only change with the MC totems but jesus christ doing that with 40 people would be brutal.. youre almost guaranteed to have one idiot in there to fuck something up

Thaddius isn't hard for the same reasons anymore. And by hard I mean...hmm yeah ok it's not even challenging, so not sure how to call it. However if your gear isn't good, on 25man, you'll run into the berzerk if too many idiots die. However, what was hard on 40man was, a single idiot standing on the wrong side could actually kill people before dieing himself, due to extremely high raid dmg on that fight(chain lighting did a fuckton of dmg back then). Nowadays, the guy stands in wrong place, he dies, everyone else gets instantly healed to full by a CoH, and the dmg he did is only 4k out of 20k hps anyway.

You had the berzerk issue with too many retards back then too, but it was mostly idiots wiping the raid. Now you can't actually wipe the raid unless there's like 7fucking people on the wrong side or some shit. It'd be questionnable how'd you get there with so many retards though. However as people die, the rest of the DPS lose the dmg buff, so it's exponential contrary to other fights, and meeting the DPS can be tough at shit gear lvl. Obviously after 3-4weeks of naxx clearing, you can probably 17-18man it because the gear upgrades are so big, and the healing required is so low.

25man naxx is really easy. Patchwerk MIGHT be brutal if you don't have the right healers, or if your tanks are extremely undergeared, and thaddius can be annoying on dps if the same idiots keep dieing everytime, but that's about it. On 10man, I'd say gluth can be challenging without a dedicated kiter with the right spec, sapphiron can be annoying with no priest/druid setup, and I found grobbulus to be quite annoying too on our first runs, mostly due to low DPS and him chain injecting people at 30% so you always have like 2DPS running around, and the rest somewhat has to kill slimes.

Everything is pretty easy overall, but well I'm in a rather skilled guild currently. Missed that stupid no death title due to a single death, priests ran bit too close to the big dragon to heal the rogue who ran on the other side to avoid bilzzard, and SPLASH cleave in the face. This shit has such a huge range. It is definitely toned down from the 40man version, but the biggest "nerf" as I said before isn't really to the bosses, but it's the buff to player abilities, such as AE and instant heals, higher hp pools, self survivability shit like iceblock, clos, lower cooldowns on shieldwalls and what not, no expectation on a full buffed raid with like 6potions each, better UIs and stuff like that. If you put 40 lvl 60players in appropriate gear in the old naxx nowadays, but with current talents/abilities, they'd find it A LOT easier.

Sartharion 3drakes is our next goal though, which should prove challenging enough.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Thaddius is "hard" because unlike every other Naxx fight, you can't have the 5 idiots in your guild die and then just beat it anyway with the other 20. You simply won't have the DPS to kill him if you lose five polarity buff stacks.

WoW difficulty goes something like ths...well, the math is pretty complex but here, I simplified it into a graph for everyone.

[Antoine]

i fixed that for ya

[Zehn - Vhex]

That's only if a fight involves void zones for him to stand in.

[JerleMinara]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

That's only if a fight involves void zones for him to stand in.

I can avoid standing in void zones on Sarth while wasted as hell. There's a reason I clocked in for the top 5 on most reps sir!

[Tabris]

That graph is great.

[Lucifar]

Thaddius with 40 was also hard because the zone server almost died from 40 people with polarity buffs doing 40 'checks' each to the other people in range to calculate the size of the buff stack.

It didn't matter if we were all perfect. If one other guild from our server was inside the instance also attempting the event, the server was at something like a 2 second effective latency on the updates and we would just all die.

We would actually 'take turns' on attempts with a hated rival guild of the same faction, sometimes we even went as far as to use IRC to organise turns for attempts if we knew an alliance guild was at the boss. With the amount of animosity between some of the top guilds, there is no way that turn taking would have happened if it was remotely possible to do it at the same time.

[Xequecal]

Does anyone besides me find it hilarious that despite Blizzard's efforts to homogenize the classes and make all DPS specs viable, the current situation is almost exactly the same as it was in TBC? Rogues on top of DPS, with Hunters and Warlocks right on their heels, and everyone else sucks.

Rogues have been clocking at >6000 DPS ever since someone discovered how broken Honor Among Thieves is. Next you have Hunters/Warlocks competing for second with ~5000 DPS each. You bring one token Mage for Amplify/Dampen, Intellect, food, and Imp Scorch. Every other DPS class is absolutely godawful by comparison.

[taebin]

Those graphs are impressive, but don't truly depict Naxx in a pug. Here you go.

[Fadaar]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Does anyone besides me find it hilarious that despite Blizzard's efforts to homogenize the classes and make all DPS specs viable, the current situation is almost exactly the same as it was in TBC? Rogues on top of DPS, with Hunters and Warlocks right on their heels, and everyone else sucks.

Rogues have been clocking at >6000 DPS ever since someone discovered how broken Honor Among Thieves is. Next you have Hunters/Warlocks competing for second with ~5000 DPS each. You bring one token Mage for Amplify/Dampen, Intellect, food, and Imp Scorch. Every other DPS class is absolutely godawful by comparison.

Yeah pretty much. I was actually expecting them to, ya know, follow through with what they said... but I've given up hope and will just rely on my utility and willingness to respec healing if needed. Seriously. Fix this shit. It's the same DPS disparity that Sunwell had.

[JerleMinara]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Does anyone besides me find it hilarious that despite Blizzard's efforts to homogenize the classes and make all DPS specs viable, the current situation is almost exactly the same as it was in TBC? Rogues on top of DPS, with Hunters and Warlocks right on their heels, and everyone else sucks.

Rogues have been clocking at >6000 DPS ever since someone discovered how broken Honor Among Thieves is. Next you have Hunters/Warlocks competing for second with ~5000 DPS each. You bring one token Mage for Amplify/Dampen, Intellect, food, and Imp Scorch. Every other DPS class is absolutely godawful by comparison.

Except Honor Amongst Thieves is broken and our #1 and #2 DPS are a Hunter and an Unholy DK! Competent mages clock in at 6k+ DPS , Blood DKs with good gear and the right specs(fuck frost, 50/0/21 forever) are in the 5k range, and on and on and on. Ret paladins are reasonably good, usually have at least one warrior in the top 5, and Shadow Priests put out a decent hurt.

In short, basically everyone but Shamans has a pretty reasonable chance at shining right now, and I don't think it's fair to base rogue DPS on a bugged talent. Class balance is still ridiculously skewed, but when it comes to DPS, looking at a lot of WWSes and shit there's a lot of variety and it seems to be much less static and locked in than you say.

[James]

Eh, it may go back and forth on top damage depending on the fight and the class, except that a good BM Hunter will place #1 on every single fight every single time.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by James

Eh, it may go back and forth on top damage depending on the fight and the class, except that a good BM Hunter will place #1 on every single fight every single time.

If you're in a group of 5 HAT Rogues, you can 5-point Evis, and you will have 5 more combo points before the global cooldown expires.