Warhammer: The Renown System Needs More Work

[Lost Ranger]

Bright Wizards in their mid 30s only doing 3k damage make me sad.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

1.1 doesn't even matter. The game's outdoor PvP system is fundamentally flawed. It's already over. The World maps are fucked up by forcing a separtion between PvE/PvP. There's no way you can fix that shit without throwing away 1-2 years of designed content.

What I think will end up happening is they will either

A) Refine their PvP scenarios. They'll polish up their broken, shitty scenarios into playable elements. RVR will no longer be open world, but instead will be converted into scenarios akin to the old/original Alterac Valley (where PvE and PvP are intertwined)

They'll maintain/balance populations with battlegroups, and allow wins to determine to which scenarios/rvrinstances are played (i.e. if destruction's net wins > orders net wins, the war will shift closer to Altdorf in the Emp/Chaos pairing the week after, where the pref scenarios are those for Reikland)

The game will become an MMO focused on instance PvP. I think if done well, it can survive in this niche.

B) Feverishly try to apply patches and fixes to the open RVR system to attempt to salvage quite possibly the shittiest implementation of RVR yet. Crash and burn will follow within 1-3 months.

Those are really good suggestions to completely ruin the game. There's nothing wrong with RvR on servers with decent nightly populations. Even on my low/medium server we get plenty of open RvR and it's very fun. Once more people hit tier 4 on most servers it will be awesome.

[Mkopec1]

I think too many servers is probably the #1 problem with this game IMO. For one, they released too many to begin with. Second, now with the initial rush of people gone, the problem is even bigger. And third, now with the people spread out among the 4 tiers, makes it even seem like the population is more scarce. I see too many med/med servers, not to mention the 10-15 low/low. They should all be consolidated in a way that most are high/high. With high populations you have more of a choice in what you want to do nightly, like it was when everybody was in T1-2. Want to RvR, sure, want to scenario? Sure. Want to PvE or PQ? Sure, plenty of people out doing stuff. When you have all 3 options open to you, the game takes on a whole different personality.

[mek]

New MMOs don't like to be caught consolidating servers, for obvious reasons. But it is their own problem for having too many to begin with.

[Mist]

No, the number 1 problem is CTDs.
Number 2 is too many servers.
Number 3 is that tier 4 needs a lot of people to reach critical mass, and tier 3 goes way too slowly for most people.
Number 4 is... Tor Anroc.

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Mist

Those are really good suggestions to completely ruin the game. There's nothing wrong with RvR on servers with decent nightly populations. Even on my low/medium server we get plenty of open RvR and it's very fun.

there is plenty wrong with the rvr on skullthrone now, people are doing the rvr cause it is better scenarios unless your rank is low but no one is fighting, the people rove around the zones taking undefended objectives and thats sadly the best way to get renown.

[Dyscord]

Lots of people say "once people hit T4". I know its a sweeping generalization to think all people are like me, but why again do I want to hit T4?

The more I leveled, the less fun I had. The more I leveled, the less powerful I felt. The more I leveled, the longer it took to receive a reward. The more I leveled, the more the few rewards I did receive, sucked. The more I leveled, the less I found people to play with. The more I leveled, the longer it took for scenarios to pop.


So the moral is... again... why do I want to level again?

[Sneaky]

Once I reached lvl 40 on Averland (EU) the motivation was sort of gone, too. The only thing realy happening were scenarios and I had my fair share of Serpents Passage while leveling up. Some of the other scenarios are no fun either, like the cave/warpstone one (WL pet gets stuck everywhere).

So I simply stoped playing, I see no carrot for me. That I played a melee dps didn't help, either.

[Pyros]

I had my first night of 40 open rvr tonight, and I gotta say it was pretty fun. The most glaring issues though are population balance and class balance. It wasn't so bad in terms of destruction vs order. In fact, there was about 3 warbands on each sides most of the night(at least where I was fighting). The issue was with composition of these warbands and the roles they took. As usual on my server, destruction was kicking order's ass. It's not so much about numbers, but the "best" pvp guild(first 40s, most 40s, highest guild rank, most coordinated etc) is destruction.

Anyway so as usual, destruction was kicking order ass, so all they were doing was defending stuff and ninjaing when we weren't around. The issue is order forces were about 25bright wizards, 25healers, and 20ish randoms. At some point they stopped being retards and trying to fight us headon, and just went into the next keep we were going to cap, with all their people, and it was simply impossible to take it. They were just camping in the upper rooms, spamming rain of fire for 1hour straight. We tried various strats, involving rank4morales, magus mass pulls on the sides to open ways for the rest of the group, silences on the BW masses, melees rushing them and kbing them into the AEs and all kind of stuff, but pretty much everytime we rushed upstairs, half the raid would die before reaching the middle of the room. Sorc AE silence has a cast time while BW doesn't too, which doesn't quite help.

In the end, my biggest complaint was how unbalanced classes are and what it leads to. On order, playing a melee class is excruciating at best. There's almost no tanks, full BWs, so if you're a WL or a WH, you're gonna get destroyed the moment you step in. On destruction, there's plenty of tanks, so the melees get more time to advance, but due to the barrage of BWs, they also have to stay behind until the casters clear first.


Anyway other than that, it was pretty fun. We destroyed many more people than we had in open areas, and there was plenty of fighting, with just enough breaks capping BOs and shit for points so I could make myself a sandwich or take a small afk break. The rewards were, as expected, fucking terrible though. I somehow managed to gain 2 bags from the keeps(both when I had less than 50points), and they were both greens, with gear that was lower level than the greens I got while leveling. I took the money instead. I gained quite a bit of RP, but since I lvled on pve, I'm very low, so I was getting like 60rp for a lvl 30 kill with like 15people attacking him ^^.

The CTDs are pretty annoying though. We often had to delay rushes and such because a tank or a magus would CTD in the middle of a fight. I hope they fix those.


From what I understood however, it was one of the first night Order had been actually fighting back in full force and stuff on my server. I guess it wasn't a bad thing that I took so long to hit 40 on any char, if they start fighting in open rvr every night now. I'm on a high/high pop server though, and I think that makes a big difference in game experience.

[Vorph]

I only skimmed the thread quickly, but I didn't see mentioned what I consider to be the two greatest [RVR] fuck ups.

1. RR should not matter prior to whatever level it is (37?) that you can raise your RR higher than your rank. RR has absolutely zero bearing on how powerful or difficult to kill a player is. Rank is all that matters, and until a player's RR is greater than his rank RR shouldn't even be considered in the calculations.

2. RP and XP for player kills needs to be shared by all players in range regardless of group, scenario group, warband... or lack thereof. Only after that is done should any further adjusting (upward, ffs) take place.

And I lied, I have a third one now that I think about it:

3. Bolster T4 to AT LEAST 38. 36 is fucking idiotic.

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by Dyscord

Lots of people say "once people hit T4". I know its a sweeping generalization to think all people are like me, but why again do I want to hit T4?

The more I leveled, the less fun I had. The more I leveled, the less powerful I felt. The more I leveled, the longer it took to receive a reward. The more I leveled, the more the few rewards I did receive, sucked. The more I leveled, the less I found people to play with. The more I leveled, the longer it took for scenarios to pop.

So the moral is... again... why do I want to level again?

I had this same feeling.

The first 20 levels of this game were awesome, but once I passed 20, there was a sharp slowdown in the game's pace. Leveling became a chore, not fun, and I lost momentum.

[Zefah]

Honestly, the game really feels like it is lacking "a point" for people to continue playing. I only have a 25 Runepriest and a 24 Chosen, but I am already starting to feel bored with the game. I can tell that even if I get to level 40 I will just be farming scenarios over and over again to get renown ranks for rewards that really aren't even that great.

The PvE content that I have experienced so far is very boring, and while the PvP content is quite entertaining, it seems to get more and more frustrating as levels progress. I loved Tier 1 and 2, but the massive amount of crowd control abilities that every class gets starting near the end of T2 really takes the enjoyment out of PvP.

Open world RvR is also fairly boring due to the way renown and exp are distributed and calculated, and primarily due to the fact that there isn't much point to holding a keep. There really is no benefit to capturing keeps and defending them. In fact, all you do is lose money (and lots of it in T4 from what I hear). They really needed to make it so that keeps were geographically positioned in a way that made them significant. Put them at crossroads so that is extremely difficult for the other side to pass through without capturing the keep. Maybe make it so that flight masters only exist in keeps or something. There just needs to be some meaning or some kind of significance to owning a keep. It shouldn't just be a drain on resources and give no benefit to the faction that owns it.

Right now the game feels like a good class-based PvP game, but honestly that just isn't enough for me to justify the monthly fee. I like the Warhammer lore, I like the art and graphics, and I really enjoy a lot of the class mechanics, but the gameplay just isn't there for me. I don't want to play $15 per month just to have access to scenarios that are usually so lopsided that you know which side is going to have a landside victory within the first two minutes. It is a good game, but they definitely need to add a whole lot to make open world RvR more interesting and improve the PvE game as well.

[kasey]

If you want an ultra polished game with ultra depth you need to wait for ragnarok online 2. I will bet my millions in monopoly cash that this game will be, despite the anime style touch,the best game ever.

[leane]

Get rid of soloing, just treat soloists as though they were part of a group of everybody in the area. Remove the incentive and the problem takes care of iteself. If they really want to they can go well away from the group and are truely soloing instead of leeching.

Add more classes to Order. There are more than enough on destruction (population) so fill in the weaker side with classes that cover their weaknesses and holes. Make them cool and more people will go order and help out the balance issue. Once pop balances out you can move in the destro versions of those classes.

[random]

Originally Posted by leane

Get rid of soloing, just treat soloists as though they were part of a group of everybody in the area. Remove the incentive and the problem takes care of iteself. If they really want to they can go well away from the group and are truely soloing instead of leeching.

Add more classes to Order. There are more than enough on destruction (population) so fill in the weaker side with classes that cover their weaknesses and holes. Make them cool and more people will go order and help out the balance issue. Once pop balances out you can move in the destro versions of those classes.

I'm sorry but if i'm doing 40% or more of my factions entire damage done then I am in no way leeching. I am facilitating my team getting the win bonus at the end. The fact that I can get 40-65k exp in one scenario is skewed but only if you completely ignore the fact that sc's have absolutely no team work.
Solo grouping is not leeching actually if your sc parties are assisting and working as a team(much like wow premades do) you are actually losing exp or breaking even and gaining none of the benefits. Until my faction on badlands begins to play with the appearance of some braincapacity and contribute anything close to that of what I or any other decent player does you can enjoy your piddly little 15k exp.
The fact that the war community as a whole shows no concept of the los mechanics stats etc is sad and has no reflection on the solo grouping system.

Might sound a bit elitist here, but when the top end pvp guilds join the bg's in group ques I group up because otherwise I will lose exp. But for the most part I join a solo group pick up my share of the exp and ignore the hate from the players who don't grasp the concept of a dynamic pvp system,assisting, priority targets or just flat out common sense.