[WoW] PVP and Arena Discussion (Arena Talk HERE ONLY)

[Zest]

Because itemization is fucked.

And don't be fooled... a Ret Paladin can still pretty much 100-0 you at 80.

BE Paladin can keep someone almost totally locked down for 20 seconds. (7sec HoJ, 10sec Repent, 2sec Silence, 1 sec gap, 3.5sec HoJ). Hope you have an anti-stun talent.

[Gnome Eater]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Reminds me of retadin abilities for TBC getting nerfed because at 60 you could kill people inside one HoJ cooldown thanks to double-trinket + double CS. Once you hit 70 and the scaling didn't carry the nerfed state of retadins really shone

Yeah, the difference is this is not burst on a 4000 HP character with zero resilience. This is killing priests with 500 resilience, full brutal, in one HoJ. If you trinket it you will just end up sitting in a repentance and die again next time the hammer recycles.

[Miele]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

That's exactly what it is and everyone knows it.

Now, to be fair, I don't really have a problem with the glacial content patches. But I do have a problem when you knock me down a notch just so I can play your game longer. Because that's ALL this is doing. It's not leveling the playing field. It's not making things more fair. It's forcing everyone to play an extra 2 months of the same goddamned 100k honor grind in the same goddamned battlegrounds all you pussies cry about in every fucking BG thread so it gives them time to put some additional content in.

It's one thing to be slow. It's another thing to start reseting stuff your playerbase gives a shit about just so you can be slow for longer without taking any heat. One is moderately acceptable, because even though they're slow, they do a pretty damned good job of it when it does finally get out. Forcing people to play your game for 2 more months so it doesn't appear that you're as slow is bullshit. Like I said, if it was a reset to level 1, it would be EXACTLY the same, and then maybe all you fucking carebear crying pussies that don't PvP except when it suits your needs will understand what the fucking problem is here.

Isn't that what every MMO producer did so far?
I don't disagree with you at all, besides having 100k honor and all the tokens is not that huge boost in the end.
EQ with its long ass boring camps to obtain key parts for zones, partially mimicked by WoW, honor grind for PvP'ers again in WoW, or unbeatable encounters cockblocking guilds from progression, etc. probably many more examples. Everything is aimed towards you spending more time and thus more money, playing the game. Standard practice.

[Gnome Eater]

I have 75,000 saved honor, but getting rid of it is a good thing. Expansions in WoW are gear resets, allowing people to carry things over from a previous expansion is a bad idea and goes against their entire philosophy.

I'll buy the new cloak/trinkets and just sit on the remaining honor I guess.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Miele

Standard practice.

Because WoW is supposed to learn from their predecessors mistakes, and they're not. Honor and Marks equate to nothing more than time. There is no skill involved and never has been. By taking TIME away from your customers, you piss them off.

I honestly feel like this is the beginning of the end of this game for me. It's really hard to work up the motivation to log in when you pay these fuckers for the time it took to get 33k honor (in my case) and 100 AV, WSG, AB and 55 EOTS marks, and then they fucking tell you that you have to pay them to do it again. Fuck that shit. If the Horde on my Battlegroup could play worth a shit, it'd be one thing, but having to do all of that again 42 or 63 honor and 1 mark at a time again really fucking infuriates me, and it should. There is no justification for it.

If you want to not carry over the past, then reset us all to level 1.

[Miele]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

Because WoW is supposed to learn from their predecessors mistakes, and they're not. Honor and Marks equate to nothing more than time. There is no skill involved and never has been. By taking TIME away from your customers, you piss them off.

I honestly feel like this is the beginning of the end of this game for me. It's really hard to work up the motivation to log in when you pay these fuckers for the time it took to get 33k honor (in my case) and 100 AV, WSG, AB and 55 EOTS marks, and then they fucking tell you that you have to pay them to do it again. Fuck that shit. If the Horde on my Battlegroup could play worth a shit, it'd be one thing, but having to do all of that again 42 or 63 honor and 1 mark at a time again really fucking infuriates me, and it should. There is no justification for it.

If you want to not carry over the past, then reset us all to level 1.

Sorry, but this can be applied to everything in wow except your character level: factions becoming meaningless, gear being reset, badges and crafting materials, rare recipes, what was a large amount of money becoming little bit more than small change and so on.

Once LK comes out, except for a few k gold and the fact I have my epic flyer ready to be unfrozen, nothing else will follow me in Northrend for long, aside from some epic gear that will last the two weeks needed for levelling.

In this regard, Blizzard has always done brutal swipes, nothing changed for wotlk and nothing will change comes 4th expansion in 2010 or so.
As I said they want you to keep playing as much as possible, and while I can see people like you pissed off at having to regrind 70-80 hours worth of honor, the majority of their playerbase will suck it up and do it anyway.

Banked honor and marks are "wasted time" when they are being reset, so is everything else (in a way), except those 70 levels you grinded and possibly the non-combat pets you have collected if you like that kind of things.

I really have a hard time thinking of anything I want to absolutely keep with me comes the new xpac, except the mounts and an Orb of deception. My gear will give me an edge in PvE grinding till 80 compared to all those who have worse one, so your gear, assuming for example you're wearing full S4, will give you an edge over all the S2 BG afk'ers.

Many players, since goddamn Ruins of Kunark launch, complained at least once that regearing is boring, but let's face it, once you have seen all zones at least once, it's pretty much the only thing left to do: collect gear. Everything else is just being done with new gear upgrades in mind and honor/arena points are just the same thing as collecting badges of justice, an effort worth doing until the new xpac release.

Take it easy

[Zerai]

I have to agree with him. Factions you got your use out of. You grinded or attained exalted for a reason (or you're a masochist) and got what you were aiming for. I maxed out Skyguard for my mount and never did a daily again.

Arena points are attached to a competitive system so having them reset is perfectly fine.

Honour points and tokens? It's a purely time based system. You can say 'but now you start on an equal ledge as everyone' but you don't really. I don't play every day. But people do. They will just go in, grind the bgs and get it back 10x as fast as me. But those same people can't grind arena points like that (unless wintergrasp still keeps giving it?).

Your factions don't reset. So you can still use them. You can come back and buy a different coloured mount to match your new armor.

Wiping it is directly wasted time. EQ did it, sure, but new mmos? fuck that. It's not like I was going to unsubscribe, I just play less. Isn't that a good thing? saves them server bandwith while still making the same amount off me. Making me grind honour is going to make me quit the fucking game, bgs are boring. Why? BECAUSE OF THE GOD DAMN HONOUR GRIND.

It's just a dick move.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

It's fun to watch people justify the same behavior that cost EQ it's title.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

It's fun to watch people justify the same behavior that cost EQ it's title.

Exactly.

Anyone here miss camping your VT key? If so, do you also enjoy slamming your cock in a car door in your offtime?

[Miele]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

It's fun to watch people justify the same behavior that cost EQ it's title.

Justify? Never.
Part of the MMO I choose to play? Seems so.

Timesinks are not fun, but the whole gear up and regear up upon xpac is as old as MMOs are. Gearing up through pvp or pve is the same thing, it's still collecting random gear that will be forgotten in N months. If the process becomes too fast, you'd play 2 months and cancel for the following ones till new gear (content) is released.

Or are you advocating that we should gear up only once through an MMO lifespan?

Should they change this? Yep. How? No clue, no one pays me to find solutions, in fact I pay them to play the game, the moment I don't find it fun, I cancel, as I'm sure you all would do.

In the end you lose 70 hours, given that probably many on these forums have well in excess of 70 days played, I don't find it such a burden to carry, I think the root of your problems lies elsewhere: you're bored of the game, quit it then, we will handle Makata for you (or you could chime in just for sport!).

[Clug]

Originally Posted by Fadaar

Seriously? You had to bust out the official forums insult?

Check the title of the thread, you spouting off shit that a 1500 instant heal every time you crit doesn't matter goes to the heart of my comment to you.

[spronk]

The 3.0 patch is also bringing epic BOE gems so another way to spend any honor you have banked. No real point though in PVPing anymore until wotlk, even epic gems are going to be fairly worthless after 2 weeks in wotlk.

Really the "optimal" strategy now is this: level some alts to 60, get rest XP. When 3.0 hits level them to 70 with the 30% boost (not RAF, 3.0 drops Xp reqs 30%). No matter what, its going to take a few weeks or months for people to figure out which classes are really OP - after all, resto druids were shit originally in TBC but really shined in arena after season 2 started (remember how war/pally were kings of s1? that didnt last long either)

Meanwhile stockpile gold and reagents for professions, especially inscription. You will need tons and tons of herbs for inscription. if TBC was any indication there will be 2-3 profs that are pretty OP at start, and the new prof will be ok, and get buffed after a few months. Inscription will also be a huge money maker for anyone who gets early rare recipes.

Lastly, after ~3-6 months cancel your WoW sub and go check something else out. It'll be 9+ months before Blizzard releases a decent content patch, and there is going to be a long time where there isn't fuckall to do except retard grindfests (PVP, arena, rep, LK). That's the time I am going to go play Warhammer, assuming Mythic gets a decent patch cycle going.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Miele

Justify? Never.
Part of the MMO I choose to play? Seems so.

You're justifying it because you're agreeing with a dicknose maneuver.

It wasn't part of the MMO you chose to play up until now. It even says on the fucking website that Honor stays with you, never decays, you never lose it. It doesn't say that at some point in the future we may decide that you've got too fucking much.

Look, the cap on honor points was instituted for this reason, so is the unique(100) on the tokens. The cap is there to limit how much people can bank for an expansion/the next patch/next tuesday/whatever. You've already decided that there's a hard cap on how much you can get, and then they decided that it wasn't enough.

There is no leveling of the fucking playing field. People who PvP professionally in this game will STILL have their entire set before some people hit 80. Anyone who plays the game strictly for the pvp will have their shit before everyone else. It doesn't level off anything. All it does is piss everyone off (except you morons without honor, or who clearly don't give a shit about pvp, in which case you can shut the fuck up, because we're not fucking talking to you). Pissing off people is never a good move, and honestly, it's not a good precedent to set. When there's another game out there that attracts the PvP crowd, why on god's green earth would you ever piss off the PvPers?

I know I've said this before, but it bears saying again. It's not cool to force people to play shit battlegrounds with retards any more than they have to. You don't play 100% of the time with premades or with friends, don't fucking pretend you do. Don't tell me to either. There are times when I log on after work (at 11am) and I'm the only one around in the guild. I'm supposed to just not play and wait for some friends so we can roll some scrubs in WSG? Fuck no, and don't act like you don't do it too.

Like Grobbee said, EQ failed because of fucking moronic game design that served no purpose other than to keep people paying your subscription fee longer. At that time, no one though it would ever crumble because it had the almighty 400k subscribers. Don't fucking think it can't happen to a MMO with 9 million. You keep doing dipshit actions like this that are aimed SOLELY at keeping people subscribed longer and you're gonna piss people off. Keep on doing it and you're gonna see an exodus to a game that doesn't treat it's subscriber base with contempt (for the moment).

[Thengel]

On what level did EQ fail, exactly?

In your post you call anyone without a bunch of honor stocked up a bunch of morons. Then you say how shitty battlegrounds are and how you don't want to grind them. Who is the moron here exactly?? It seemed pretty fucking obvious to me that if you hated battlegrounds, you wait until they announce if honor is going to carry over or not. If yes, grind. If no, don't. That's not moronic, that's just saving yourself a lot of misery.

[Zerai]

I didn't grind. Once I finished my honour grind, I only did bgs when friends were around and were finishing their own grind. Helping them out. During that, I accumulated 25k. I also have 70 of each token (except wsg, and 100 AV).

So no, I didn't grind to save up.