[WoW] PVP and Arena Discussion (Arena Talk HERE ONLY)

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Dunkelheit_vz

So for the love of Death Knights, stop trolling about the honor reset. Suck it up like you always do and if you really hate playing the game, quit it. Because resetting honor just makes you play the game that you are supposed to love (because you want to pay for it, right?)

The honour grind isn't fun. But that isn't to say the game isn't fun. It has fun parts. It just sucks that to get to parts that are fun require plowing through that gay as shit honour grind.

Anything prolonging the grind pisses me off. They prolong it enough and the carrot at the end isn't enough anymore and people quit.

It's why warhammer is a great thing. Blizzard needs some competition. They need to have to work to keep people.

[Clug]

Originally Posted by Balu1

I call bullshit on alot of the whining. I can't see anyone with 20k health getting bursted down in 1 hammer often.

Someone isn't in the beta.

Oh and that was your first post ever with a 2002 account? WTF.

[Balu1]

Originally Posted by Clug

Someone isn't in the beta.

Oh and that was your first post ever with a 2002 account? WTF.

I am in beta.

What does my account have to do with anything?

I'm not saying ret isn't a little op right now. I'm saying it won't be at the end game. Once people start capping resiliance and getting more health, it'll balance out. I think most people are just used to killing paladins or healing through their damage. It's not as easy right now.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Balu1

I am in beta.

What does my account have to do with anything?

I'm not saying ret isn't a little op right now. I'm saying it won't be at the end game. Once people start capping resiliance and getting more health, it'll balance out. I think most people are just used to killing paladins or healing through their damage. It's not as easy right now.

Damage tends to increase, and while resilience caps, damage doesn't. See rogues after S3, resilience and stam fucked them quite a bit before, then their damage caught up(especially in pve gear) and they started tearing people apart. They also got some side bonus with lower cooldowns and stuff, but still.

[Mageling]

Originally Posted by Pyros

Damage tends to increase, and while resilience caps, damage doesn't. See rogues after S3, resilience and stam fucked them quite a bit before, then their damage caught up(especially in pve gear) and they started tearing people apart. They also got some side bonus with lower cooldowns and stuff, but still.

People are saying that in 10 man and 25 man Naxx, that Ret is really in the middle of the pack as far as damage is though. If they were 500-1k DPS above most classes, then I could see an issue, but when you have someone at 70 in T4/T5 level gear putting out 1k-1.2k DPS against a target dummy, that's not really THAT bad.

If you are going to "bring them in-line" with other DPS at 70, they aren't going to scale properly at 80 and you're going to have another TBC shitfest for them.

You can't have it both ways sadly.

I know that it's going to be a little frustrating at 70, and likely at 80 assuming some good weapons are going to be available fairly easily, but hoping that Blizzard has done things better this time around, they will be at least a formidable class in PvP who has to control their burst, making them a great partner for a double DPS 2's team with either a Rogue or Mage.

I'm excited to get to play even at 70 for a while if Ret stays the same, since most of my guild has thrown in the towel until Wrath comes out and I can't get a decent 3's or 5's team together to just practice working together.

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Balu1

I call bullshit on alot of the whining. I can't see anyone with 20k health getting bursted down in 1 hammer often.

The fact that it can happen is fucking dumb, sorry. If you take "best possible damage" and then "all crits" scenario for any class except some mage types and ret paladins, you'll find most can't kill someone within 5 seconds, even if the gods smile down on them and they RNG their fucking faces off. Ret paladins can (So can mages.), trying to justify that is laughable, at best.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Mageling

People are saying that in 10 man and 25 man Naxx, that Ret is really in the middle of the pack as far as damage is though. If they were 500-1k DPS above most classes, then I could see an issue, but when you have someone at 70 in T4/T5 level gear putting out 1k-1.2k DPS against a target dummy, that's not really THAT bad.

This isn't really relevant.

If you do 2k dps over 5 mins, but if that's because you do 10k damage for the first 30 seconds and 30k for the rest of the fight, makes you shitty in PVE, but a PVP god.

Using someones status in pvp to justify pve or vice versa is not a reasonable argument.

[Zehn - Vhex]

The funny thing is they keep buffing retadin burst while nerfing sustainability.

[Genjiro]

Its also hilarious to see holy paladins heal someone from almost dead to almost full in 1 heal through a MS debuff.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Isn't BoL stacking getting nerfed? Or is that not what you're talking about.

[Mageling]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Isn't BoL stacking getting nerfed? Or is that not what you're talking about.

They sure as hell aren't healing for 30k on crit heals, so that's what I would imagine is being complained about.

I can't imagine that they EVER wanted BoL to stack on a single person.

[Balu1]

Originally Posted by Pyros

Damage tends to increase, and while resilience caps, damage doesn't. See rogues after S3, resilience and stam fucked them quite a bit before, then their damage caught up(especially in pve gear) and they started tearing people apart. They also got some side bonus with lower cooldowns and stuff, but still.

S3+ rogues are a different beast. They didn't need much resilience until s4. Cheat death wasn't "fixed" until then. By that point, they had access to enough s4 gear that cheat death would still work fine with a few pieces of pve gear. I'd also like to point out that armor pen was also a factor in rogue dps.

Have you played a ret pally in full deadly? Have you fought a ret pally in full deadly while playing another class in full deadly? The resilience and stamina is greatly inreased, on some sets, it almost doubles. I'm not saying the damage doesn't outscale the stam/res, I'm saying that you have no way to tell me that it does.

[possible]

Originally Posted by Balu1

S3+ rogues are a different beast. They didn't need much resilience until s4. Cheat death wasn't "fixed" until then. By that point, they had access to enough s4 gear that cheat death would still work fine with a few pieces of pve gear. I'd also like to point out that armor pen was also a factor in rogue dps.

Have you played a ret pally in full deadly? Have you fought a ret pally in full deadly while playing another class in full deadly? The resilience and stamina is greatly inreased, on some sets, it almost doubles. I'm not saying the damage doesn't outscale the stam/res, I'm saying that you have no way to tell me that it does.

Your argument is still flawed. Is a ret pally allowed to do insane damage because in the future it'll be slightly toned down with perfect gear?

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Balu1

S3+ rogues are a different beast. They didn't need much resilience until s4. Cheat death wasn't "fixed" until then. By that point, they had access to enough s4 gear that cheat death would still work fine with a few pieces of pve gear. I'd also like to point out that armor pen was also a factor in rogue dps.

Have you played a ret pally in full deadly? Have you fought a ret pally in full deadly while playing another class in full deadly? The resilience and stamina is greatly inreased, on some sets, it almost doubles. I'm not saying the damage doesn't outscale the stam/res, I'm saying that you have no way to tell me that it does.

Who cares?

You do realize that with this expansion people are going to level from 70-80, right?

Right now, while playing through the expansion at any level a ret paladin can come up to you and fucking destroy you. Other classes can do the same thing.

It's kinda hard to test how useful the new PVP based talents and abilities are when classes literally 1-2 round you, or CC kill you.

And no, I remember hearing the "wait till cap" argument with age of conan. As much as the game flattens out in a lot of ways at cap, there is the little problem of not making folks not want to do something violent at the rampant burst bullshit that's in game while other classes are getting micro-tweaks on abilities that don't change how bloody your asshole is after being reamed by classes that apparently can see the Matrix.

[Wilfan]

Originally Posted by Horse

Who cares?

You do realize that with this expansion people are going to level from 70-80, right?

Who cares, indeed? Since release, warlocks and rogues will rape you seven ways from Sunday in the 30-59 bracket when you're questing. Not only will you die perma feared/kited/stunlocked, you'll die to mobs and suffer the repair bill.

Somehow, people aren't quitting in droves, even on PvP servers.