[MMORPG] The Lost Concepts of PvP

[Lyenae]

zehn you haven't made a point since 2004

[DeusEx]

I think Zehn has a secret crush on Dumar

Though Zehn is right this time. I might tend to agree with Dumar how WoWification has negative influences on the community aspects of the MMO scene, but this time Zehn is absolutely right. You didn't play EQ for win or loss Dumar, you played it for achievement and community, like everyone else.

EQ might have "mattered" more than WoW, but certainly not in the win/lose aspect.

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Please fucking stfu about 'vast majority'... Duppin Jr.

The vast majority of posters here think you're stupid.

And yes, I do have statistics to back that up.

[Itzena]

Here you go, Dread Lord wannabies: Crowns of Power - Free 3D Graphical Online Role-Playing Game
Free fantasy MMOG with FFA pvp and item loot once you're past the newbie levels.

Go nuts.

[voodoochile78]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Here you go, Dread Lord wannabies: Crowns of Power - Free 3D Graphical Online Role-Playing Game
Free fantasy MMOG with FFA pvp and item loot once you're past the newbie levels.

Go nuts.

I'd imagine they'd say that looting all of someone's shit only feels good if the victim is paying $15 a month on top of the invested time. It's like poker!

[Harkon]

Join the rush to the top in the CROWNS OF POWER!

Soon you too can join the likes of SLASH, Batman, and Maxblade in the Justice League taking on the evil Benetar of the dreaded Dark Legion!!!!

[Dumar]

i just want to collect female heads from the victims i killed and chopped up and store them in my house. i haven't done that in 10 years.

[Lost Ranger]

Only a matter of time before we see you on the news I think...

[WillzZz]

Why is everyones answer to create a brand new shitty game with a different set of rules? Why can't it just be a GOOD GAME that appeals to the masses, with a single (or more if popular) FFA PvP ItemLoot ruleset. No worrying about how shitty the graphics are or how pointlessly terrible the business model is. Sure, different rules servers are a little extra work, but really the lions share of the work is behind you at that point, and it's all just icing (So long as you build it that way from the ground up). Why are different rulesets not an option?

Let me just end with this: I will not be picking up WOTLK. It doesn't really matter why. If Blizz released an itemloot FFA server I would probably resub immediately and begin contacting friends and old nemesis to see who was going to show up.

[mutantmagnet]

Originally Posted by DeusEx

I think Zehn has a secret crush on Dumar

Though Zehn is right this time. I might tend to agree with Dumar how WoWification has negative influences on the community aspects of the MMO scene, but this time Zehn is absolutely right. You didn't play EQ for win or loss Dumar, you played it for achievement and community, like everyone else.

Well studies are showing this is true, but your comment touches on a point I've seen UO era pvpers make that is hardly addressed by carebears (mostly because they make these speeches to other UO pvpers only :| )

There is a school of thought that having harsher penalties fosters a more realistic and tighter knit community. How can you trust someone to be your friend if you can't punch them in the virtual face when they are acting like a jerk?

In fact I've seen this type of arguement being made by EQ players begging for level losses, extremely slow levelling and disgustingly hard raids again. Ironic how these guys rarely see eye to eye unless they are EQ players who came from one of the Zeks(?) servers. Yet the theory goes even further than this.

Knowing that you aren't interested in fighting other people required you to actually be more proactive in socializing, so you could have fun they way you wanted to by having others protect you through arms or intel. This is the reason crafters become more powerful community organizers than you would see in other games.


This leads into the counterarguement against the idea that 20% of the people would feed on 80%. The theory points out that this is a misrepresentation, because only realistically at best 5% of the players were real PKers who attacked indiscriminately. The other 15-25% who were willing to fight regularily only did so against other communities competing with them for the same resources.



Oh wait doesn't this sound more like human civilization than what you would get from LOTRO and maybe that's the other issue, people don't like the idea of hardcore pvp MMOs. It touches too closely to our basic natures as a society when a large contigent of players play MMOs to escape society.

[Dumar]

the disconnect between perspectives is the size of the grand canyon. anytime anyone here talks about pvp, specifically uo pvp, people mention item looting. uo had item looting, but do you think that's the reason people pvp'd? hell no. i had so many characters, from reds to a lumberjack to an assassin. do you think the reason i pvped was to get the other person items? i never ever gave a shit about what they had. half the time i didn't even check their corpses. i did it for the thrill of doing it. what's important here though is that if item loot WASN'T there, there wouldn't be much of a thrill, yet all the pks i knew didn't really care about what they stole.

anybody that played uo will tell you that nobody really cared that much about item looting.

ps, yeah ranger you might see me on the news soon.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Community is one of those bullshit words that change meaning depending on who uses it. Was EQ more tight-knit? I would argue it's impossible to tell. The only thing that's obvious is that people will enjoy and claim the community is better if they're surrounded by people that they enjoy being with. I think the WoW community is superior to anything I've played in before. I know more people, more people know me. I know who I can count on, I know who to hate. I like the people I play with more. Outside of game I have more people I can talk about the game with.

Community is ultimately just another bullshit word that changes meaning depending on the point you're trying to make. Innovative, skill, meaningful, community. I'm leary of anyone who uses these terms unless they're very clear about what they're trying to say.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I know who to hate. .

You can't do anything about the people you hate in WoW, so who gives a fuck who you hate?

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

no idea

i really have no idea what you're saying here. hate, count on? know more people? why do you need to know anybody outside of your guildtag?

[Zehn - Vhex]

Would you listen even if I explained it? Of course not. Those who aren't retarded already know why. Thanks for playing Dumar, better luck next time.