[MMORPG] The Lost Concepts of PvP

[ToeMissile]

Originally Posted by Convo

Darkfall FAQ - Rules

The only thing that I don't agree with/have issue with is the free looting of bodies. I thoroughly enjoyed Lineage 2 except for a couple things (bugs and practically still in alpha at launch aside) the ridiculous grind/f'd up economy and the chance to drop multiple items that too forever and a day to afford. Other than that, it was a huge thrill to have to watch your ass when out questing. It was rare that people when around jumping people because they /shouts across the zone and the offending player would quickly be hunted down.

I guess to summarize consequences need to be balanced extremely well.

[Pharazon]

I understand the point the OP is trying to make, the post was just poorly written. PvP without substantial penalties lacks excitement for him. There's just not a lot of people who will share his point of view, which is why a game with rules like this would either have a small niche or have to be an oddball ruleset server of a popular game.

Discord was exciting as fuck. Take out the exploits and you'd have a game that i think a lot of people would have put some time into here and there. Thats the kind of game he wants. He's not alone, but he is in a pretty small minority.

[masteen]

I love how the PvP asstards always start with the assumption that everyone loves the thrill of watching hours of their free time get flushed down the toilet.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by masteen

I love how the PvE asstards always start with the assumption that everyone loves the thrill of watching hours of their free time get flushed down the toilet.

I changed one letter and now you have the ethos of the rabid Vanboi community from a couple years ago.

[Jerrith]

One concept I'd find interesting is this: Your normal items are safe from loss on death, but there exists an "artifact" style class of item that is significantly better than a normal item. These artifacts would, of course, be unique (per shard) and significantly more powerful than a normal item of their power. Anyone carrying one of these would automatically be flagged for PVP, and these items are always dropped on death. They'd also be dropped on logout as well, to keep people from hiding them away on logged out alts.

There was a 2D graphical game I saw a few years back that had something similar - some unique pieces of armor, that if you had all (5?) of, you could use a unique sword - the most powerful sword in the game. Sadly, the impression I got was that most of these items stayed banked or on alts, etc, and weren't put "at risk" often.

Thoughts?

[Fog]

If you're the kind of person who likes taking risks and thrillseeking, aren't you more likely to be doing something in the evenings that isn't playing MMORPGs?

I mean, not claiming that all MMO players are nerds in 2008, but there's got to be a correlation here.

[Duppin]

I now proclaim that this thread is about what a shame it is that so few good single-player RPGs are produced anymore, with MMOs being churned out in lieu of them.

Because frankly, the original premise of this thread is a) rehashed in just about every thread ever and b) stupid.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fog

If you're the kind of person who likes taking risks and thrillseeking, aren't you more likely to be doing something in the evenings that isn't playing MMORPGs?

I mean, not claiming that all MMO players are nerds in 2008, but there's got to be a correlation here.

That's not a fair comment at all.

Is there more fun playing real poker, or poker with fake chips? In one game, there are real rewards and real risks, and thus there is pressure, intensity, and real feeling of victory or loss. In the other, the rules are exactly the same, but it's boring to almost everyone.

Enjoying a challenge, a real sense of risk vs reward, and a real sense of competition is what PvP (and PvP penalties) are about. These days however, gamers in MMOs feel that losing a fight is "penalty" enough and they want to get back into it.

I personally prefer there to be a larger gap between the top skilled players and the average, and I don't care how this is accomplished. Right now, MMOs cater too much in narrowing the gap between the average skilled and the top.

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by Necrolyte

I personally prefer there to be a larger gap between the top skilled players and the average, and I don't care how this is accomplished. Right now, MMOs cater too much in narrowing the gap between the average skilled and the top.

What do penalties have to do with that? To bring up everyone's favorite example: FPS games have a huge gap between the good and the scrubs, yet no penalty in dying.


Really, claiming that penalties for dying/losing add excitement just make up for otherwise lackluster gameplay.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

What do penalties have to do with that? To bring up everyone's favorite example: FPS games have a huge gap between the good and the scrubs, yet no penalty in dying.

Really, claiming that penalties for dying/losing add excitement just make up for otherwise lackluster gameplay.

Notice I never said anything about penalties? In terms of a gap between top players and scrubs, I said "I don't care how this is accomplished."

Specifically about WAR, I'll explain the difference. In FPS, there's no penalty because the objective is netting the total frags. Them dying directly contributes to you winning.

In WAR, you have a super skilled group of 30. You are sieging a Keep with a group of 50. You win over, and over, and over again. They just keep coming back. They die, come back. Die, come back. Even though you've killed the group of 50 multiple times over, you have no choice but to leave and try again later because there are no mechanisms in place for you to push the opposing party out long enough to claim the Keep.

It's basically like the old school zerging on early raid bosses that some guilds try. Eventually, you will win on many encounters simply because you dying, ressing, re-entering the fight is >>> regen of the boss.

[bubblegumbo]

Hey guys, getting ganked and losing 100+hrs of gearing/gold grinding/exp grinding from dying is very fun, you should try it.

Gee I wonder why people don't go for those type of games anymore.

Go play Eve and stfu.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by bubblegumbo

Hey guys, getting ganked and losing 100+hrs of gearing/gold grinding/exp grinding from dying is very fun, you should try it.

Gee I wonder why people don't go for those type of games anymore.

Go play Eve and stfu.

This is just being close-minded.

What if the penalty was giving the other player an "ear" like Diablo?

[Hardcore Cracka]

Why don't you guys just play DotA? The PvP there is 100x better than WoW will ever be, and the grind takes all of 30 minutes each game. It's really a win-win situation.

[SlyyDaugg]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

Even in WoW, can you imagine how unfun the game would be if you took durability loss from pvp?

Yeah, it would suck, but only because in WoW, PvP death is every 5 minutes - give or take - all damn day if you want.

Hell, in WoW, not only are you not punished for sucking - you're rewarded for sucking!

They might as well award points according to how much you suck or don't suck at PvP, xD.

"On a scale of 1 to 10, how good or bad are you at PvP?"
"Hrmm, I'd say I'm a...3?"
"Ok, then - here's 3 tokens for ya! Suck that much for 10 games in a row and we'll give you something that will make you suck like a 4!"

[SlyyDaugg]

Originally Posted by bubblegumbo

Hey guys, getting ganked and losing 100+hrs of gearing/gold grinding/exp grinding from dying is very fun, you should try it.

Gee I wonder why people don't go for those type of games anymore.

Go play Eve and stfu.

Yeah, it's just too bad that your gear/gold grinding/exp grinding is 100% meaniningless, because so is death, eh? No really - guess what all the risk-free gear and crap nets you in the eyes of everyone else around you who has the same shit...

NOTHING. You're just a guy in an 3-d internet lobby. Hello, Kitty!

Originally Posted by masteen

I love how the PvP asstards always start with the assumption that everyone loves the thrill of watching hours of their free time get flushed down the toilet.

This is hilarious.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You spend hours and hours pushing buttons on your keyboard while you watch a little guy made of pixels run from murloc to murloc, collecting mario stars and turning them in for "Shoulders of Uberness" or whatever... and that's not flushing time down the toilet?

Ok, bubba.