[WoW] Raids now and in WoTLK

[Ephron]

For those that raid, how good is the raid game now in WoW? I haven't done a significant raid since BWL/ZG/World Dragons (I'm not counting Kara) and I just wasn't drawn into the raid game in WoW like EQ did. Though after reading the posts in the FoH forum it sounded like I really missed something with Naxx and currently Black Temple and Sunwell are very good also. Now after reading that the first raid zone in WoTLK will be Naxx my interest is sparked with hopes of experiencing something that I missed, but how enjoyable is the raid game? Some of you have described it now as "grinding daily quests all week to pay for one evening of flasks", which is mildly disheartening as the last time I quit WoW was due to what I would describe as the Groundhog Day effect (the movie). Every day was exactly like the day before.

Back to raiding...does the picture on the home page here say it all? 400 attempts at a single boss? Is this the reason why the guild turn over rate seems so damn high? I want to know how fun the raids are, how challenging, and how satisfying they are once you've conquered, and also what expectations must I meet in order to break into the metagame with raiders, before I re-sub and possibly just waste my time.

Ephron

[Zehn - Vhex]

You're better off asking your question in this thread rather then starting a new one.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...hanged-28.html

[r3probate]

It's important to note that M'uru is the hardest (or second hardest?) boss in the current expansion and that 400 attempts there isn't like blowing 400 attempts on Attumen the Horseman. Consumable costs are under control now - one flask lasts two hours and counts as both your elixirs so there's no stacking arcane elixir, shadow power, flask, mageblood, etc all at once. I raided through up til SWP and decided to call it quits then due to graduation among other things, and had a grand ol' time during all the raiding leading up to it.

With T5/T6 level badge gear and 10mans, re-gearing to raid-ready status shouldn't be that difficult on an active server, but I cannot personally attest to this because I'm just about to hit 70 on my reroll.

In short, give it a shot, you could waste your 15$ much much worse elsewhere.

[Ephron]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You're better off asking your question in this thread rather then starting a new one.

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorp...hanged-28.html

I'm not seeking to find out the differences between X a year ago and X now as much as just what perspective do raiders have of the end game in WoW.

[Ephron]

That's still sounds like hell, last boss of the expansion or not. It's good to know that what I read about grinding daily quest for flask money was either inaccurate or just false all together, and you're right about spending $15 bucks on something less useful than a sub, I spent $1.50 on a bottle of water this morning, 10 more times this month and I could have just used the tap and played WoW.

[r3probate]

Do you always double post?

[spronk]

If you are with a group of good players and there isn't a single person who fucks up a lot raiding is fun and not too bad, my neighbors kid is in a sunwell clearing guild and they were in the top 100 in terms of clearing sunwell.

However there are maybe, maybe 200-300 guilds like this on all the WoW servers. The rest of the 10,000 raiding guilds have the usual mix of 50-80% good players, 20% shitty players who fuck up, don't come prepared, don't pay attention, etc but are rarely called out on it. Which leads to 1/6th player turnover every month and the deathspiral to mediocrity, where you recruit lower and lower quality people - I should know, I'm a mediocore player and I have been recruited a bunch of times into a deathspiral guild, just because I have a healer with decent gear.

WOTLK will make everything 10 mannable, and Blizzard has had plenty of experience now with making tuned, good PVE encounters so I'm sure all the 5 and 10 man encounters will be fun and great.

PVP still sucks in wow, WAR's PVP is way better if you like PVP. But for solo play or PVE, wotlk will be great.

It's going to be hard now to really try to get into a Sunwell guild, unless you are close friends with someone in such a guild a person needs to be geared pretty well to be of any use in Sunwell, and many Sunwell guilds no longer clear Hyjal/BT (so you can't get T6 from them). However, if you play the game casually its pretty fun, you can get to 70 in a few weeks, get a full s2 welfare set in another few weeks, get some badge and kara gear in a few weeks, do a weekly gruul/mag 25 man pug, do the occasional ZA pug, and you'll enter WOTLK with a nicely geared toon. Trying to get into a T5/T6 raiding guild will be difficult, if they are recruiting poorly geared people it basically means they are having problems, the ones who keep high recruitment standards won't want anyone with poor gear.

[Ephron]

Originally Posted by r3probate

Do you always double post?

Not always. I'm on a DoD network and utilizing a proxy atm to even view this site. Everytime I attempt a post it forces me to login to FoH and sometimes this will cause a double post. I guess it posts before I login in again, and then again after I login. I feel like a jackass for doing it though. Wish I could delete my own posts.

[Ephron]

Originally Posted by spronk

If you are with a group of good players and there isn't a single person who fucks up a lot raiding is fun and not too bad, my neighbors kid is in a sunwell clearing guild and they were in the top 100 in terms of clearing sunwell.

However there are maybe, maybe 200-300 guilds like this on all the WoW servers. The rest of the 10,000 raiding guilds have the usual mix of 50-80% good players, 20% shitty players who fuck up, don't come prepared, don't pay attention, etc but are rarely called out on it. Which leads to 1/6th player turnover every month and the deathspiral to mediocrity, where you recruit lower and lower quality people - I should know, I'm a mediocore player and I have been recruited a bunch of times into a deathspiral guild, just because I have a healer with decent gear.

WOTLK will make everything 10 mannable, and Blizzard has had plenty of experience now with making tuned, good PVE encounters so I'm sure all the 5 and 10 man encounters will be fun and great.

PVP still sucks in wow, WAR's PVP is way better if you like PVP. But for solo play or PVE, wotlk will be great.

It's going to be hard now to really try to get into a Sunwell guild, unless you are close friends with someone in such a guild a person needs to be geared pretty well to be of any use in Sunwell, and many Sunwell guilds no longer clear Hyjal/BT (so you can't get T6 from them). However, if you play the game casually its pretty fun, you can get to 70 in a few weeks, get a full s2 welfare set in another few weeks, get some badge and kara gear in a few weeks, do a weekly gruul/mag 25 man pug, do the occasional ZA pug, and you'll enter WOTLK with a nicely geared toon. Trying to get into a T5/T6 raiding guild will be difficult, if they are recruiting poorly geared people it basically means they are having problems, the ones who keep high recruitment standards won't want anyone with poor gear.

I have a 70 warrior in full epic gear albeit a fair amount of that is Welfare from S1+Stormhearld. Also I'm not really concerned with seeing the raids in TBC. I'm looking at the future at Naxx and WoTLK. The fact that all raids wil be 10/25 manable is a positive for me in regards to availability. If I keep getting positive feed back I'll reSub, otherwise it looks like more Sky/Sea in FFXI.

[Chrisb3]

Resub soonish and get your last 10 levels for the expansion, (or wait and get a DK).
Not much point starting raiding until Wrath though unless you know what your doing to gear up.

Raiding is great fun btw, each encounter is different from the last.

[Lenardo]

with the changes to potions- the 1 potion per combat rule is still on i believe-
1 flask= 2hrs

1 potion MAYBE 2 potions (use a "resist" potion type prior to actual combat start)


we are looking at ~150g per player per raid if you use 2 flasks and say 20 potions a night and buy at AH prices.- note i haven't raided in a long time but flasks are about 50g per and 4hrs of raiding =100g just there..

150g is maybe 2hrs doing dailies

start on island- get all the quests - do them- ~1hr for around 100g(10 quests on island).
do roots, 2 skettis, "ambush for aldor/scryers &mining cart/flayers&ravagers" which will net you another 80gold plus loot.

making money in wow is EASY- you can easily make 300g in about 3hr just dailies + you get a chance for 3 badges.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Ephron

I'm not seeking to find out the differences between X a year ago and X now as much as just what perspective do raiders have of the end game in WoW.

Which is a discussion we had in that thread about 12 pages back or so.

But yeah, what Spronk said is pretty much spot on.

Edit: And mat farming is a non-issue if you have intelligent leadership.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Lenardo

with the changes to potions- the 1 potion per combat rule is still on i believe-
1 flask= 2hrs

1 potion MAYBE 2 potions (use a "resist" potion type prior to actual combat start)


we are looking at ~150g per player per raid if you use 2 flasks and say 20 potions a night and buy at AH prices.- note i haven't raided in a long time but flasks are about 50g per and 4hrs of raiding =100g just there..

150g is maybe 2hrs doing dailies

start on island- get all the quests - do them- ~1hr for around 100g(10 quests on island).
do roots, 2 skettis, "ambush for aldor/scryers &mining cart/flayers&ravagers" which will net you another 80gold plus loot.

making money in wow is EASY- you can easily make 300g in about 3hr just dailies + you get a chance for 3 badges.

The problem with this. Is none of that is actually fun. 2 hours of dailies? seriously?

[Man0warr]

On my server, there is a really good PUG run by the alts of the two top Alliance guilds, and anyone can join as long as their gear is decent. They clear SSC/TK/Hyjal and can do up to Mother in BT (Shadow Resist is kind of a block for a PUG) - so it's not impossible to get gear without a raiding guild.

Problem is for a fresh 70 if you don't have friends you need to go through the process of heroic dungeons to get drops/badges, then start doing kara badge runs, ZA, etc to get gear good enough. Can't skip from fresh 70 to Sunwell unless you have alot of friends in a SWP guild who can just let you take rots.

I just restarted after leaving a year ago, I already had t4/t5 so didn't have to do much to get caught up but the new badge rewards and daily heroic quest help alot. I also do the 4 Sunwell dailies each day that can have a badge as a reward (takes about 45 min).

And 400 attempts for M'uru seems excessive, not sure how many my guild did but they killed Kil'Jaeden after about 45 hours of trying over 5-6 weeks.

[larseny316]

Honestly, I hate to say it, I wouldn't raid if I didn't buy gold to cover consumables. But 1 day of rl pay, keeps me flasked for 2-3 months of raids, and I value my spare time enough to make that trade.

What me and all my friends are looking forward to in wrath, is the 10 man version of 25man content, even if the loot is a tier behind. It means we can drop that 20%, and still do 10 mans every night, with a potential 25 man if the entire guild is on.