MMORPG's and content

[Wilfan]

Originally Posted by JerleMinara

It's the % of the people registered on wowjutsu that has completed some of each instance.

It's not playerbase, it's a self-selected population of guilds that opt to track their progress publicly.

Wowjutsu isn't opt-in.

[Zehn - Vhex]

It's not self-selected. It's all guilds that have cleared about 1/2 of Karazhan. So yes, nearly 100% of the guilds that have started Karazhan have completed it.

[Tred]

Overall I never thought Asheron's Call was that GREAT of a game. It was fun for the time I played but no one can argue they added some serious content every single month in their monthly patches. One of the most memorable was the patch that destroyed the most popular city in the game. The devs thought it was too much of a center communal area that they went and leveled it to the ground to spread people out with that months event.
I don't know how feasible it is these days but I'd love to see another MMO do something along the lines of AC's monthly content patches.

[Tullaeniel]

I am still a fan of The Vision™ way of thinking - "Your player base is to dumb to know what they want you need to tell them what they want." I still think that statement is pretty spot on when we talk about old games ect.

If it was up to most people on this board to design a game. I am sure most everything would be instanced, travel would be easy (POK books, Wind Riders), no corpse runs, every class can solo, can't delevel, ECT. You would also have many agree that these are good for the game, after all it looks good at a first glance. While nobody enjoys tedium many of those things add an element to the game be it making the world larger, giving people a reason to fear dying, building community. All of that gets looked over since most people only pay attention to the tedium part.

Most people bitch and complain about these elements to the game but for quite a few important reasons they take away so much from the experience. Content in some ways would last longer if everything wasn't spoon fed in a linear fashion like in WoW, to point to Velious since at one point this was the pinnacle of design. Factions that mean something Giant/Dragon/Dwarf is a way to allow some longevity to content in that you can see it from a different perspective. Non-Instanced content provides longevity in that only one group can experience it at a time, I.E. guilds racing guilds in EQ fashion. I am sure that can be argued both ways, yes there are some benefits gained through instanced content but there are also trade offs that are lost.

When you design a game around the majority the content is going to easy and friendly and it will be consumed at a rapid pace, there is no way to keep up. Sure you could allow players to design content, then again visit the WoW forums and realize that sea of endless retardation is where you content would be coming from. You know damn well it will be full of exploits one sided battles or many just a new stage of large dick shaped monsters.



If you design a game that adds travel, corpse runs, forced grouping as part of an immersion factor and not just to add tedium then a decent MMO team should be able to design an expansion about once a year and keep pace with the general public. Just remember the player base is to dumb to know what they want and "It's working as intended"

[spronk]

the future is Snow Crash

[Lalala]

Originally Posted by Tullaeniel

I am still a fan of The Vision™ way of thinking - "Your player base is to dumb to know what they want you need to tell them what they want." I still think that statement is pretty spot on when we talk about old games ect.

The Vision only worked because there was not much competition.

[Ninajrr]

I think its worth mentioning that there is a difference between dynamic content and sandbox content, or at least pseudo-dynamic content.

You don't need the players to create the content, only to be the variables which make the system act dynamically.

[Tullaeniel]

Originally Posted by Lalala

The Vision only worked because there was not much competition.

Keep telling yourself that. The reason it worked is because at that point there was some integrity in the game. This was before the vision became a vision of dollars signs. Even still it took many years and dozens of MMO's until one dethroned the old EQ. I still stand by it the more to listen to the playerbase and base everything on them the worse the game becomes. Personally, I feel Warcraft was a better game when launched than it is today, many of the changes for the masses have been a turn for the worse. Granted the subs are rolling in but I believe that has to due more with a polished and fun game than all of the lame changes over the years.

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by Gnome Eater

What is the solution then? What do gamers want?

Different gamers want different things. Some gamers want exploration in a sandbox, some want linear progression. It's not possible to come up with a design that works well for every gamer. Nor is it feasible to want to design a game for ALL gamers. You pick a path and do it well. UO and various MUDs did the sandbox excellently. EQ and WoW provide great linear experiences. You'll have plenty of crossover (and complainers) but for the most part, a game will benefit by establishing a target audience and direction very early.

I'm not sure why there is an endless debate about this, and why all MMO gamers think that every MMO should fit them like a glove.

[Crone]

I have a feeling it's because the mass of MMO players, see the most popular one, start to play it, and then only at that point start to bitch about whats wrong with it, and how the game should be different to suit them.

If gamers would figure out what they wanted, then figure out which games fit that, before just buying the most popular, because it is most popular, I'm sure there would be a lot less bitching, and happier gamers.

[Siddar]

Originally Posted by Tullaeniel

Keep telling yourself that. The reason it worked is because at that point there was some integrity in the game. This was before the vision became a vision of dollars signs. Even still it took many years and dozens of MMO's until one dethroned the old EQ. I still stand by it the more to listen to the playerbase and base everything on them the worse the game becomes. Personally, I feel Warcraft was a better game when launched than it is today, many of the changes for the masses have been a turn for the worse. Granted the subs are rolling in but I believe that has to due more with a polished and fun game than all of the lame changes over the years.

The Vision was just the status quo hiding behind the word Vision. The runaway sucess of EQ wasnt expected and people that built it really had no clue as to why it was so sucessfull. There response was to create The Vision that tried to stop any changes to EQ because they had no idea if the thing they were changeing may have actualy been what made EQ suceed. In many ways The Vision is actualy a oxxy morron meaning the total lack of a vision and instead worshipping the status quo as a religion.

[Simas]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

It's not self-selected. It's all guilds that have cleared about 1/2 of Karazhan. So yes, nearly 100% of the guilds that have started Karazhan have completed it.

I dont know how they get the 98%, their same boss numbers

Attumen the Huntsman 84.43%
Moroes 84.88%
Maiden of Virtue 82.72%
Romulo & Julianne 77.18%
The Big Bad Wolf 77.18%
The Crone 78.03%
The Curator 83.16%
Terestian Illhoof 72.10%
Shade of Aran 78.33%
Netherspite 64.32%
Chess Event 78.13%
Prince Malchezaar 79.86%
Nightbane 66.68%

[kasey]

Give players an extensive construction kit plus incentive ( LOL VALLEY OF INSERT NAME HERE) and have a team of devs free their creations (the best ones, selections, whatever. Its a matter of coordination)of unwanted elements and bugs. Et voila. A horde of thousand free level designers and all goes the way you want it. This would increase the snails pace of WoW to 1 dungeon a week easily. WoW is led by retards imo. Millions and millions of players, billions of raw income and all we get is a stinking expansion every 2 years. And then i solve what they throw at me within weeks(Cockblocks dont count). Woopidoo. What a bunch of sorry lazy loosers.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Tullaeniel

Keep telling yourself that. The reason it worked is because at that point there was some integrity in the game. This was before the vision became a vision of dollars signs. Even still it took many years and dozens of MMO's until one dethroned the old EQ. I still stand by it the more to listen to the playerbase and base everything on them the worse the game becomes. Personally, I feel Warcraft was a better game when launched than it is today, many of the changes for the masses have been a turn for the worse. Granted the subs are rolling in but I believe that has to due more with a polished and fun game than all of the lame changes over the years.

No, EQ worked because it was the first traditional high fantasy diku-derivative in true 3D and your crippling case of nostalgia means bugger all.

Originally Posted by kasey

Give players an extensive construction kit plus incentive ( LOL VALLEY OF INSERT NAME HERE) and have a team of devs free their creations (the best ones, selections, whatever. Its a matter of coordination)of unwanted elements and bugs. Et voila. A horde of thousand free level designers and all goes the way you want it.

If this were true, the best MMOG out there right now would be Neverwinter Nights 2.

[Itzena]

windfury post++