WAR NDA officially lifted. Post pics and info!

[Mad Jacq]

Witch Elves need a nerf. You can invis to the flag in Phoenix. OK that's fine. You grab it. OK that's cool too. I hit you with Vengence + Takedown (20 Shadow Warrior here) and you simply dispell it and hit sprint.

Flag capped.

Actually if it was just me guarding the flag, there wouldn't be any reason for a WE to stealth. Just run up and pwn me in my face and take the flag at your leisure.

Black Orcs could use some work too. The tanks in this game are a little too tanky. I have seen one tank take 4 people (including me spamming arrows--dmg, dots, debuffs, the whole shebang--as fast as I could) a whole minute or more to kill and that's with the tank alone with no heal support.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Bizanich

In fact, the only downer was missing a killing blow on another reader of this board and watching him skillfully avoid us via detaunts, good steering, and a machine that can obviously handle the lag better then mine can

That loss was a goddamned embarrassment. I take no responsibility though, I didn't enter the map until it was already like 350-0. I also think they said they had no healers at all (maybe a DoK, but pug DoKs don't heal anyone but themselves anyway) until I came in.

And yeah, I saw you, saw the score, and said to myself there is no way in hell I'm letting you kill me to end the game. Detaunt + AE detaunt + morale heal = some other poor bastard gave you guys the 500.

Originally Posted by Mad Jacq

Witch Elves need a nerf. You can invis to the flag in Phoenix. OK that's fine. You grab it. OK that's cool too. I hit you with Vengence + Takedown (20 Shadow Warrior here) and you simply dispell it and hit sprint.

Flag capped.

The problem isn't WEs, it's stealth. Stealth doesn't break until whatever they are casting--and this includes picking up objectives--completes. WEs and WHs claim that they break immediately, but if they do it's on their screen only, because I've sat next to a flag and watch someone appear and pick up the flag in the exact same instant many times.

At least you guys can have an engineer prevent stealth grabs, I'm not aware of anything on Destruction side that can stop it, at least not in T2.

[PerritoBites]

Originally Posted by Mad Jacq

Witch Elves need a nerf. You can invis to the flag in Phoenix. OK that's fine. You grab it. OK that's cool too. I hit you with Vengence + Takedown (20 Shadow Warrior here) and you simply dispell it and hit sprint.

Flag capped.

Actually if it was just me guarding the flag, there wouldn't be any reason for a WE to stealth. Just run up and pwn me in my face and take the flag at your leisure.

Black Orcs could use some work too. The tanks in this game are a little too tanky. I have seen one tank take 4 people (including me spamming arrows--dmg, dots, debuffs, the whole shebang--as fast as I could) a whole minute or more to kill and that's with the tank alone with no heal support.

I disagree with the second part of your post. This is the only game where tanks can actually tank. Their tanking capabilities is a huge part of their playstyle. If they mess up with this, then it will be a problem. If you are having problems taking down a tank, try using debuffs or atacking from behind.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Mad Jacq

Witch Elves need a nerf. You can invis to the flag in Phoenix. OK that's fine. You grab it. OK that's cool too. I hit you with Vengence + Takedown (20 Shadow Warrior here) and you simply dispell it and hit sprint.

Flag capped.

Actually if it was just me guarding the flag, there wouldn't be any reason for a WE to stealth. Just run up and pwn me in my face and take the flag at your leisure.

Black Orcs could use some work too. The tanks in this game are a little too tanky. I have seen one tank take 4 people (including me spamming arrows--dmg, dots, debuffs, the whole shebang--as fast as I could) a whole minute or more to kill and that's with the tank alone with no heal support.

So the Witch Elf is OP because a stealth class can get a flag from a single defender? If anything, that seems like it's how it should be. You could just sprint behind her, and once both sprint wear off, you're both at the same distance, at which point you can snare her again. Or your team could be not full of retards, and notice the flag has been taken, and move toward her. Hell if you're 20, you can just mount up and chase her down and kill her easily. If you compare WE DPS to WH DPS, then you MIGHT have a point, but what you're saying is just nonsense.

[Dyscord]

Yes, my black orc is tough as nails.

Thing is though, I'm a joke in every other respect. By T3 everyone's learned pretty much if that orc is hitting you, and you're getting healed, you can ignore him. I'm really not dangerous (unless I'm punting you into the lava, which is another issue entirely). Bright mages ignore me and keep casting. Runepriests and mages just laugh and keep doing their thing. I'm just annoying, and thats about it.

[Mad Jacq]

Originally Posted by Pyros

So the Witch Elf is OP because a stealth class can get a flag from a single defender? If anything, that seems like it's how it should be. You could just sprint behind her, and once both sprint wear off, you're both at the same distance, at which point you can snare her again. Or your team could be not full of retards, and notice the flag has been taken, and move toward her. Hell if you're 20, you can just mount up and chase her down and kill her easily. If you compare WE DPS to WH DPS, then you MIGHT have a point, but what you're saying is just nonsense.

Well I haven't tried the horse yet. Just got 20 and it this morning.

I think I should have at least a chance solo vs a witch elf trying to grab my flag.

As it stands, I'm not seeing it.

Face to face? Hell no.

I snare. She dispells it.

If I sprint I can't resnare with no AP. And by that time we are across the river and I am being raped by their whole team...

Maybe it's Order too (bunch of idiots), but WE sure seem to be a large part of the problem.
________________________________

On the tank thing, I should add that I don't think they need to nerf them to oblivion. I agree that they should be that which they are: Tanks. But good grief I was using debuffs, dots, damage, everthing at my disposal and I was seeing very slight movement from the HP meter on that bastard.

Tanks in this game are Built Ford Tough(tm)!

[Ephron]

Originally Posted by PerritoBites

I disagree with the second part of your post. This is the only game where tanks can actually tank. Their tanking capabilities is a huge part of their playstyle. If they mess up with this, then it will be a problem. If you are having problems taking down a tank, try using debuffs or atacking from behind.

I agree that tanks are typically fine as they stand and I don't know that going 'ether bunny' on the black orcs is the best tatic. You could try a tactic more becoming of a lady and persaude them by wearing a day dress and offering up sandwiches and lemonade.


Ephron

[Pyros]

I think your issue is you're playing a shadow warrior, tanks go down fine on any high DPS class unless you attack them from front or they have support. And Witch Hunters have exactly the same mechanics as witch elves, stealth, snare removal and flee. 1min 1min 30secs cooldown respectively. The issue is you're trying to defend a flag alone, which isn't going to happen, and you get no team support, which doesn't help either.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Pyros

So the Witch Elf is OP because a stealth class can get a flag from a single defender? If anything, that seems like it's how it should be. You could just sprint behind her, and once both sprint wear off, you're both at the same distance, at which point you can snare her again. Or your team could be not full of retards, and notice the flag has been taken, and move toward her. Hell if you're 20, you can just mount up and chase her down and kill her easily. If you compare WE DPS to WH DPS, then you MIGHT have a point, but what you're saying is just nonsense.

The problem is that stealth doesn't break at the beginning of the "I'm grabbing the flag" timer, but at the end. Essentially, a pair of classes that have the ability to grab a flag for free.

It's broken.

[Junun]

My stealth(WH) seems to break immediately when i click the flag. IMO stealth sucks in this game, with the ammount of AEs and how easy it is to see through the stealth i always get knocked out of it before i can even get my opener off.

[Sythrak]

The whole end game as it stands now is pretty empty and pointless. Maybe a 12 hour window seems reasonable down the line to take two zones of control to unlock city raids, but it sure isn't happening now (not to mention some T4 Fortresses currently have their doors bugged out, and some zones victory point counts spilling into other areas and bugging out). Pretty poor design to have the only end game content to look forward to such a rare occurance that you could care less.

Like someone mentioned earlier, they REALLY need something like WoW's PvP Weekends to encourage something other than fucking Serpents Passage. Desperately.

Certain (bugged) tactics are allowing people that got them before they were taken out to breeze through the end game dungeons, pretty much alienating anyone that weren't lucky enough to get them.

This game has a long way to go.

[Vorph]

Originally Posted by Junun

My stealth(WH) seems to break immediately when i click the flag.

Like I said... on your screen you see yourself unstealth as soon as you start to pick it up, but on everyone else's screen you're still invisible until you finish picking it up.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Vorph

Like I said... on your screen you see yourself unstealth as soon as you start to pick it up, but on everyone else's screen you're still invisible until you finish picking it up.

Combat slop? Like everything else in this game? Its just all sloppy feeling. It needs to be crisp like WoW.

[Junun]

Originally Posted by Vorph

Like I said... on your screen you see yourself unstealth as soon as you start to pick it up, but on everyone else's screen you're still invisible until you finish picking it up.

It breaks as soon as i click and if anyone is around i get attacked right away, so i can only assume that i'm popping on screen for others right away. This is also how i've see it work with WE when i'm guarding the flag. I've never had them pop out with the flag already...not saying it happens differently for you, maybe i'm just lucky.

[CylusSoulreaver]

Originally Posted by Mad Jacq

If I sprint I can't resnare with no AP. And by that time we are across the river and I am being raped by their whole team...

Use an AP pot

And yea, stealth begins to break immediately when I click on the flag but obviously have no idea what other folks see.