WAR NDA officially lifted. Post pics and info!

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by gremlinz273

That makes no sense, since it was mostly lvl 60's or close enough. There wasnt a lot of gear differential, maybe an epic or two from MC, some phat Mp5 gear from Dire Maul?

Except, once again, that is not the majority of what happened in TM/SS.

The majority of it was exactly what Occido and I, along with others, keep pointing out to you; level 60 ganks level 25 over and over again until another level 60 finally shows up and chases them away.

Your "epic battles" maybe happened once or twice a week, and STILL nearly brought the intended use of the zone to a standstill when they were happening, due to lag/permakilled NPCs/etc.

The only thing that isn't "open" about WAR's PvP, as people are describing it, is that you are for the most extent forced into areas that will be populated with people who can actually fight back.

It's such a horrible tragedy.

[Pyksel]

Originally Posted by Sythrak

Make a game that was actually designed for it and I'd agree with you. What dumbass is going to PvP for no incentives in the PvE areas when there's scenarios, keeps, battle objectives, and city raids? You'd be owning yourself. There's nothing contested in the PvE areas to fight over.

I couldn't agree more with you Sythrak as it's pretty apparent that some people are struggling with the concept of objective based or meaningful PvP. Some people want that elitist bullshit of ganking and beating someone else where it's less reliant on skill and more of a mechanic of disparity of levels or gear.

Mythic did themselves right in my opinion, with their implementation of RvR at least at a high level back during the days of early DAOC. Having reasons to PvP not for the gear, the thrill of the hunt, or ganking, but to actually drive the organized capture of a keep or relic made a huge difference in the mentality of the players. I believe that was one of the main contributers or catalysts to how realm pride got started. This changed quite a bit when the 8-mans started running the show and the game went through its series of ups & downs but the point is still valid as you've clearly stated.

I hope that continues in WAR but I will reserve some judgment for the simple fact that there's a large piece of the puzzle missing that DAOC had and that was a 3rd faction. Something that could tip the scales of balance when it came to relic/keep wars was definitely an essential piece of the development of realm pride equation.

Make no mistake, WAR is fun and I am anxious to see where it takes those of us that are playing over the course of the next couple of years or better.

[Rubix]

As far as level 60s killing lowbies goes... I think it definitely has some positive points. It creates pvp objectives over a real conflict. A lowbie being attacked by higher levels usually attracts higher levels of the opposite faction to help the lowbie out, thus creating some fun world pvp. Blizzard tried to simulate fun world pvp by creating controlled scenarios with "battlefield objectives"... which are in turn boring and predicable. I do not care what siege weapons or whatnot I can use in the future expansion because they are limited to one position where they stand with a made-up conflict. I would rather be out there pvping to save a lowbie friend because there will be unpredictable enemy backup, direction of attack, and the satisfaction of defending my friends than to sit in a repetative predictable scenario to put more "pvp" points into my pocket.

TM vs SS was amazing because it overlapped two enemy questing zones. They had to fight to control and own the middle ground for their lowbies to be able to quickly farm up the questing mobs (mountain lions, bears, etc). Of course it was normally endless back and forth, but I never had a problem questing there, even with zergs of 80 vs 80. You just have to ignore a few quests where they are trampling over each other. In addition, its not the only zone in the game to gain experience at that level.

When I first went to TM vs SS it was the beginning of WoW's lifetime and very few had hit 60. It was a mass of mostly level 30-50 with a few 60s sprinkled in. Watching a mass of multiple classes with all kinds of levels was amusing and fun. You would look for certain people to one shot if you were ranged. Rogues would stealth and flank when the tide of battle looked like a retreat to pick off and intimidate the enemy swarm. Lowbie suicide squads would run up to pick off stragglers and spam every CC available hoping to get lucky, and would normally be backed up by the swarm behind them. Every those lowbies had their role as tacklers.

Hell I even remember when alliance outnumbered us about 5 to 1 and we were holed up inside the TM church. We held them off for a while, but eventually they mustered up courage and stormed through. By then, there were about 100 guards spawned since I believe they had a very high or infinite cap at the time. Other times, we would rampage through SS and kill every alliance and npc in sight. Best time I have ever had in an MMO. It was full out burn and pillage swarm pvp, but it was not mindless, and it was easy to coexist outside of it if you had a brain. I welcome it a well designed version of it in a future MMO. I do not want towers to hold for 30 seconds or a king NPC to fight, I want real social reasons to push that line of combat forward. Put your friends on the line and you will be much more immersed while defending them.

[Duppin]

Maybe I was the only one who didn't have the special Batphone that made level 60s suddenly give a shit about whether I could finish quests or not.

Do you honestly think your desired "open pvp model" where lower levels exist solely for you to be able to use them as a means towards generating PvP content for you is any fun for them?

Or are you just so wrapped up in your own awesomeness that you don't care?

[madmaan]

Lets turn this into a wow pvp thread!!!! WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF THOSE GUYS!!!!!

[Jayblah]

Thanks for answering my questions Skrigg and Lost Ranger. I have a few more that I didn't remember at the time, and was hoping you could provide answers to now. I figured I'd ask here instead of in PMs in case others might have similar questions.

1. How well do SW fare in melee combat using their melee stance?
a. Adequate to finish off a foe that enters melee range say at 50% HP?
b. If you get jumped by an mDPS whom you did not engage with ranged attacks, is your melee sufficient to make them think twice?
c. If "no" for b., is your CC sufficient to break away so you can engage at range?

2. Do SW/Engi/SH have a dead-zone like WoW Hunters did (i.e. a range at which they can not hit with melee attacks, nor ranged attacks)?

3. Compared to the glass-cannons (BW, Sorc), how much survivability does an SW have? What about the Engineer? Squig Herder? Which of the 3 is most hardy?

4. Also Skrigg, I checked the SW and SH abilities on Wardb. All of their long-range skills cap out at 100 yards, while the Engineer's "Snipe" caps at 150 yards. I couldn't find the SW/SH equivalents to "Snipe." "Snipe" seems pretty huge to me on paper. It has 600 damage at level 40 which seems to be the highest physical damage ranged attack of the 3 rDPS, with the longest range. Is this the most effective runner killer, long-range healer harasser skill of any of the three rDPS?

[Malkav]

Originally Posted by Jayblah

Thanks for answering my questions Skrigg and Lost Ranger. I have a few more that I didn't remember at the time, and was hoping you could provide answers to now. I figured I'd ask here instead of in PMs in case others might have similar questions.

1. How well do SW fare in melee combat using their melee stance?
a. Adequate to finish off a foe that enters melee range say at 50% HP?
b. If you get jumped by an mDPS whom you did not engage with ranged attacks, is your melee sufficient to make them think twice?
c. If "no" for b., is your CC sufficient to break away so you can engage at range?

When specced Assault, I believe they can make average melee dps, with the same armor as a WL/Mar while in Assault stance. They don't have a whole lot of melee skils though, but I think an Assault specced SW could be a pretty big surprise.

I plan to try an assault spec myself (something like : Warhammer Career Planner ). I have two friends planning to play a RP and a BW. The overal idea would be to hang with them, harass a bit the enemy with a little skirmish (silencing shot and so on), and give a pretty big surprise to the mDPS who would try to take us down thinking I'm an average ranged spec SW.

[CnCGOD]

Originally Posted by Duppin

And then shrugged and went back to what they were doing.

If people wanted legitimate PvP against people of their own level, going to where those people were was always an option. And, despite Mr. Gremlin's assertions of "epic battles", the reality is that most of the people who hung around Tarren Mill ran away as soon as they saw anyone of a level who might pose a challenge show up.

As someone who was trying to level through that area at the time that such behavior was in vogue, it fucking sucked and I hope no game ever allows that kind of behavior ever again.

You must not have been around for the fights there. It was a 24/7 zerg of 20+ 60s on both sides. Which makes me think you are either a retard or a newbie. Either way you are exactly why people enjoy killing newbies... a whining pussy.

[Mazim]

To all the people wanting FFA pvp.

I've seen a total of one person running around with their PvP flag turned on. (He was level 18 running around in tier 1 of course)

Your all pussies looking for an easy kill.

[Naj]

Originally Posted by Mazim

To all the people wanting FFA pvp.

I've seen a total of one person running around with their PvP flag turned on. (He was level 18 running around in tier 1 of course)

Your all pussies looking for an easy kill.

A level 18 running around flagged in tier 1 would be a chicken and thus would get one shotted by anyone btw.

[Harkon]

Originally Posted by Jayblah

2. Do SW/Engi/SH have a dead-zone like WoW Hunters did (i.e. a range at which they can not hit with melee attacks, nor ranged attacks)?

Engineer had a 5 yard min range on some of there abilities like hip shot, snipe, and their main gun blast ability. In the 4.1 patch notes it was stated that the min range was taken off hip shot.

Originally Posted by Jayblah

4. Also Skrigg, I checked the SW and SH abilities on Wardb. All of their long-range skills cap out at 100 yards, while the Engineer's "Snipe" caps at 150 yards. I couldn't find the SW/SH equivalents to "Snipe." "Snipe" seems pretty huge to me on paper. It has 600 damage at level 40 which seems to be the highest physical damage ranged attack of the 3 rDPS, with the longest range. Is this the most effective runner killer, long-range healer harasser skill of any of the three rDPS?

Both the Engineer and Magus have the longest range attacks in the game @ 150 yards. The Magus's bolt actually does more damage but is elemental based. Having a 50 yard range advantage can obviously be very useful.

[Rubix]

Originally Posted by Duppin

Maybe I was the only one who didn't have the special Batphone that made level 60s suddenly give a shit about whether I could finish quests or not.

Do you honestly think your desired "open pvp model" where lower levels exist solely for you to be able to use them as a means towards generating PvP content for you is any fun for them?

Or are you just so wrapped up in your own awesomeness that you don't care?

The batphone is guild chat and local chat. I am sure you had that unless decided to get rid of your chat windows.

Lowbies are not just bait used for higher level pvp. They are one of the many underlying catalysts. Not only that, but in the original TM vs SS (before almost anyone was 60) they could participate and be used for a purpose. DPS and survivability were not their purpose, but instead they could get snares and stuns off, as well as making the swarm itself look bigger and more intimidating since everyone was dressed in similar questing gear clownsuits anyway. The lower levels and higher levels could fight together with a role for everyone.

The environment in Hillsbrad also provided a place for lowbies to really learn the potential of their skills. I would run into a wide array (even in my mid 20s) of opponents. I learned how to run and snare to get away from what I could not kill. I was also forced into learning how to take down those at my level and higher. The zone pushed your limits and made you think, even if it was how best to camouflage yourself and hide or to stay away from high traffic areas to level in peace if you wanted to. The point is that the environments don't have to be equal level-wise to be fun. Sometimes even as a lowbie its a fun challenge to dodge what might otherwise one shot you but also play the game and to progress. It is not necessary but it adds an additional aspect of the game. However, some people are bitches and want everything streamlined and linear and may not agree with this.

--

Now, this thread is about WAR. I played the preview weekend and had a blast as a chaos zealot. It was the closest thing I saw to TM/SS with massive open pvp with people leveling nearby. Big armies clashing and lines faltering, smaller gank squads roaming nearby and around the zone. It was fun. I hopped on the Monday morning before the servers went down (very low population at the time) and had some small skirmish pvp (1v2, 2v2 etc) and had a great time with that too. I am planning on picking it up.

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by Mazim

To all the people wanting FFA pvp.

I've seen a total of one person running around with their PvP flag turned on. (He was level 18 running around in tier 1 of course)

Your all pussies looking for an easy kill.

On launch there will be open servers AKA you are always PvP flagged.

[Gylen]

So what's the low down on Archmages? Yay or nay?

[Jabberwhacky]

They're great healers and DPS'ers, but they shoot rainbows. Whether that's a pro or con depends on how much you love vagina. I myself love vagina so I cannot play an Archmage.