WAR NDA officially lifted. Post pics and info!

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Lost Ranger

Your right people do not like losing but how is WAR any different then WoW in its design? A new level 70 stands ZERO chance of beating a S4 player. A new level 70 rogue vs a full S4 equiped rogue would be a embarrassing fight. In fact I would say WoW is a worse offender of putting a "wall" between new 70s and vets then WAR is.

That said PvP will ALWAYS be a less popular design for MMOs. There is a serious sense of entitlement in ALOT of players and pvp simply offends that part of them. Johnny casual wants to enter a BG and be able to kill anyone and everyone because he pays $15 too! Fuck that guy. This genre is not about being fair and equal. If a Sunwell raider goes into a BG and gets his ass kicked by a new 70 in blues and greens... why raid Sunwell again?

Well skill does impact the difference of gear a bit. I can kill a bad sunwell geared idiot with a 1week old 70 for example. Not so much with S3-S4 gear however, the PvP gear is just too good for pvp than even a faceroller would kill a badly geared excelent player, barring few specific class vs class setups.

Now about WAR, I remember getting into daoc like, 2years after release, and we got to a competitive status rather fast. Sure you don't have all the goodies someone who've been playing for 2years has, but once you start getting the first ones, you're fine if you outskill your opponent. You shouldn't stand a chance against highly skilled veterans if you're a newcomer though, but you can put up a good fight, and gain some respect. For a lot of PvPers, respect is better than gear. And if you're good, you ultimately close the gap relatively fast, because the leveling curves are designed that way. It'll take longer for the veteran to get from RR70 to RR71 than you as a newb to get from RR1 to RR50. At least it should, and that's how you balance it.

This is a perfectly acceptable solution, and newbies who just buy the game should be able to still find huge zerging guilds to fill their needs of getting easy points, and mass pvp, and scenarios and so on. They'll watch the veteran's videos, see how they PvP, and strive to become more like them.

[CnCGOD]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Winning is fun. Losing all the time isn't.

If the game is designed right, the zerg shouldn't by default win. And most of the times this is true. Wow probably has the worst zerg = win setup and even then I have seen 40man raids take 80man in world pvp in the good old days of pre BC. But since arenas went in, skill mattered so much less than gear.... once you have the big gear and fight those without skill would mean almost nothing. Even in the battelground gear days we would have full teams with skill and the gear and even fights became... a bore! Winning every battleground you enter for 4 straight months (literaly) ruins some of the fun. Competition is what its all about.

Being the underdog is what gives winning the feel of accomplishment. Its really really satisfying to beat a zerg when your not

[machineman]

Originally Posted by Lost Ranger

Your right people do not like losing but how is WAR any different then WoW in its design? A new level 70 stands ZERO chance of beating a S4 player. A new level 70 rogue vs a full S4 equiped rogue would be a embarrassing fight. In fact I would say WoW is a worse offender of putting a "wall" between new 70s and vets then WAR is.
.

That's really not true... at some point you have to account for player ability and experience - either of which can fail the other of the above situation.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Mogley

Was that supposed to contradict what he said? It's been said before, but in DAoC the overpopulated zerg side often lost to the smaller, better organized underpopulated side.

DAoC also had insanely long duration PBAoE stuns and fucktons of AoE damage. Of course zergs could be beaten in that game.

[CnCGOD]

Originally Posted by Itzena

DAoC also had insanely long duration PBAoE stuns and fucktons of AoE damage. Of course zergs could be beaten in that game.

DAoC had major ballance issues obviously but there are ways to make zergs beatable beyond that. Assuming the zerg is less skilled (usualy the case). The problem hits when the zerg is very very skilled... then r30s in shadowbane happens

[Pyros]

Btw more on topic, unsure if the US have it already, but open beta client can be downloaded on the euro website. Missed it if someone already said that.

[Izuldan]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

I know some people I play with are completionists and will want to fill in as much of their TOK as possible, if you aren't allowed to go back to previous tiers that will be impossible on an open server.

Can you expand on this?

I have a feeling I will be one of those types that will want to finish off as much as the tome as possible, but as I understand it from reading this forum, once you level past a certain tier, you will not be able to return to it....correct?

How will that differ from an open server? It seems to me that no matter what server type you choose, you will want to finish off as much of the Tome as possible before moving on. Why will this become impossible on an open server?

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

Why do people keep saying things like only 4 battleground at max level? It's nowhere close. There are 30 total scenarios at launch and somewhere on the order of 20 in tier 4. These 20ish scenarios are not all available all the time however in tier 4. There are 5 different layers for each racial paring with Empire Vs Chaos having 7. (the capitals)

Which scenarios are active depends upon the state on zone control in each racial paring. i.e. Order controls Greenskins tier 2 zone, these specific scenarios unlock while the previous zones scenarios are closed. Destruction controls High Elf tier 1 zone so these other scenarios are unlocked and so on and so forth until which point two fortresses are owned by one faction. (Destruction owns both final fortresses in Dwarf/High Elf areas for instance)

At this point the Capital city is unlocked which contains 1 or 2 scenarios itself and every other scenario is locked.

JUST TO CLEAR THIS UP ONE LAST TIME, there are on the order of 20 scenarios at end game, not 4.

Nah, not many people are saying that, just machineman He's trying to somehow justify that WAR PvP is the same as WoW PvP still with his continuous string of "Well, I'm pretty sure in WAR that..." "I'm not sure but isn't WAR like..." "Isn't Renown just a combination of Honor Points and Reputation?"

The guy's been trying everything he possibly can to justify WoW PvP.

[Kaxmax]

Originally Posted by machineman

That's really not true... at some point you have to account for player ability and experience - either of which can fail the other of the above situation.

Sorry, it's absolutely true. A fully S4 geared character has at least some modicum of skill to hit 2k+ rating. A fresh blue pvp geared character will never have a chance no matter how skilled, he might as well be a lev 65 fighting a 70.

The gear discrepancy in WoW PVP is huge at this point, you can't reasonably deny that.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Itzena

DAoC also had insanely long duration PBAoE stuns and fucktons of AoE damage. Of course zergs could be beaten in that game.

WAR has no lack of AE damage. No lack at all. Some of the Tier 4 morale abilities do fucking ridiculous AE damage. The collision detection also helps a bit too, in Keep situations, at least when defending.

If zerging is too much of a problem, they will just add Titans. I mean, no. I mean, DAoC's equivalent to Titans: Thornweed Field.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Magnum PI

With modern MMO's costing $20 Million or more to develop and launch why does anyone think a "niche" game/audience will ever be allowed to just sit there and never appeal to a broader customer base?

The days of games being developed for guys sitting alone in whatever place yakking with their eccentric buddies in a narrow band clique are over.

Better question why does everyone think you need wow sub numbers to be successful. So if you are not the number product in any industry you should shut your doors and call yourself a failure? ok than...

[Draz]

So are they using different clients, or will the preview weekend client work?

[machineman]

Originally Posted by Necrolyte

Nah, not many people are saying that, just machineman He's trying to somehow justify that WAR PvP is the same as WoW PvP still with his continuous string of "Well, I'm pretty sure in WAR that..." "I'm not sure but isn't WAR like..." "Isn't Renown just a combination of Honor Points and Reputation?"

The guy's been trying everything he possibly can to justify WoW PvP.

No, I'm just trying to get as many -internets from smacks like you as possible.

I don't even PvP in WoW. And that's kind of my point - from the innocent bystander's perspective... Mythic is going to have to do alot more to convince alot of people why it IS different than WoW pvp. Because most people are seeing scenarios and progressive tiers... but do not understand what happens after that, etc.

But, above all, don't miss this opportunity to give me a -internet if you haven't already.

[darkblue]

Originally Posted by Izuldan

Can you expand on this?

I have a feeling I will be one of those types that will want to finish off as much as the tome as possible, but as I understand it from reading this forum, once you level past a certain tier, you will not be able to return to it....correct?

How will that differ from an open server? It seems to me that no matter what server type you choose, you will want to finish off as much of the Tome as possible before moving on. Why will this become impossible on an open server?

If you out level an RvR area and then step into it you will be turned into a chicken.

On a Core server, only certain areas are designated RvR areas, which means that if you wanted to you could as a lvl 40 head back to the t1 areas aslong as you don't go into its RvR area.

On an Open server though, everything is classified as an RvR area, which means that as a lvl 40 you wont be able to go back to t1(or t2-t3) without turning into a chicken.

Hope I got that right.

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by Zalere

That's because WoW is overly gear dependent. So far, WAR doesn't appear to be heavy in the gear department.

So, when the gear gap is shrunk, what excuse will people start using when they lose in PvP?

Will we be back to calling people LPBs?