WAR NDA officially lifted. Post pics and info!

[Stromni Redbeard]

Lizardman are old old oldschool good guys (tho they are kind've independant of any other race), and skaven are a race that Warhammer fantasy developed, and is pretty much as evil as they come.

Skaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (pretty accurate)

Lizardmen (Warhammer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (same as above)

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

I was told by someone who might have some reason to know that lizardmen and skaven are next in the queue as far as races. Can someone give me some background on where they fit into the lore, because they both sound like destruction and the lizardmen sound like an expansion of the greenskins?

skaven are rat men who i guess will be allied with chaos, im not sure how closely tied to chaos they are in the lore, they dont actively fight empire humans afaik. lizardmen are well lizardmen made by some old gods and they oppose chaos.

skaven are prolly like the rat guys in eq2 in appearance.. i guess lizardmen are sorta like sarnak but they arent as skinny i think.

[Kobalt]

I was bored and read up on the warhammer world on a wiki so I might be off. But Skaven while evil are kind of neutral in that they hate everyone else. But who knows, who would have thought alliance would get eredar as a race?

Lizardmen are like greenskins in that it's actually multiple races, not sure you could call them good or evil(In that I duno if they would ally with humans for example, same with skaven fighting with orcs).

[Kragg Goremaw]

Originally Posted by Gilgamel

I was told by someone who might have some reason to know that lizardmen and skaven are next in the queue as far as races. Can someone give me some background on where they fit into the lore, because they both sound like destruction and the lizardmen sound like an expansion of the greenskins?

Lizardmen are neutral or good depending on how you look at things. Skaven are most certainly evil and would be on Destruction's side.

Lizardmen have almost nothing to do with Greenskins. If my lore mojo isn't wrong they are a race created by the Old Gods meant to protect the world from the forces of Chaos, they are very magical in nature.

Edit: Wow, I totally got beated to the punch by 4 other people, I fail at typing!

They need to add Ogres one day dammit!

[Stromni Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Kragg Goremaw

Lizardmen are neutral or good depending on how you look at things. Skaven are most certainly evil and would be on Destruction's side.

Lizardmen have almost nothing to do with Greenskins. If my lore mojo isn't wrong they are a race created by the Old Gods meant to protect the world from the forces of Chaos, they are very magical in nature.

Aye, not to get this too off topic but Lizardmen were the first race created by for lack of a better term the "old gods", they still try to follow the original plan set in motion for the warhammer world by the old gods.

Yes i have played far too much warhammer in my time

[Rhym]

It's hard to imagine Skaven allying with anyone. They are ratmen who live underground and dabble in inventions and sorcery. They are definitely evil and into chaos stuff but they have their own gods. There are also a TON of them and if they all actually banded together would easily take over the world but mostly all they do is fight with one another's clans instead. Skaven are notorious for being cowards and fleeing from fights too. They are heavy on numbers but each troop is pretty weak. They have strong magic and the most advanced inventions (even more than dwarves) like warp pistols, warp siege weapons and huge drills to carve out their underground lairs.

Lizardmen I don't know much about as I never got that army book and they never come up in the books. They're from the southern regions in the jungles and there are multiple types. Saurus are the dimwitted ground troops, skinks are skirmishers and ranged (also more intelligent), Kroxigar's are like crocodile men and are the largest and toughest, and the Slaan is their leader. He's like a massive bullfrog who is very strong in magic. I think he's like a prophet for their religion. Mostly, they protect their temples in the jungles from intruders and rarely seem to leave the south. I really can't say if they are overall evil, good, mixture. They seem more like an outcast race that would never ally with anyone.


There's a ton of Evil races that would go well with Chaos: Vampires/Undead, Skaven I spose, Ogres, Beastmen. The only race I could see being added to Order are Wood Elves, but that would be quite boring. Warhammer doesn't exactly have a lot of good races in it. Heck, the Humans are amazingly fucked up and evil themselves.

*Damn I'm slow

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Rhym

It's hard to imagine Skaven allying with anyone. They are ratmen who live underground and dabble in inventions and sorcery. They are definitely evil and into chaos stuff but they have their own gods. There are also a TON of them and if they all actually banded together would easily take over the world but mostly all they do is fight with one another's clans instead. Skaven are notorious for being cowards and fleeing from fights too. They are heavy on numbers but each troop is pretty weak. They have strong magic and the most advanced inventions (even more than dwarves) like warp pistols, warp siege weapons and huge drills to carve out their underground lairs.

Lizardmen I don't know much about as I never got that army book and they never come up in the books. They're from the southern regions in the jungles and there are multiple types. Saurus are the dimwitted ground troops, skinks are skirmishers and ranged (also more intelligent), Kroxigar's are like crocodile men and are the largest and toughest, and the Slaan is their leader. He's like a massive bullfrog who is very strong in magic. I think he's like a prophet for their religion. Mostly, they protect their temples in the jungles from intruders and rarely seem to leave the south. I really can't say if they are overall evil, good, mixture. They seem more like an outcast race that would never ally with anyone.


There's a ton of Evil races that would go well with Chaos: Vampires/Undead, Skaven I spose, Ogres, Beastmen. The only race I could see being added to Order are Wood Elves, but that would be quite boring. Warhammer doesn't exactly have a lot of good races in it. Heck, the Humans are amazingly fucked up and evil themselves.

*Damn I'm slow

I am betting lizardmen will be on order, just cause in the lore they are very clearly enemies of chaos, i think they could swing that relationship without much more difficulty than blizz had putting night elves in the alliance.. skaven i dunno, its kinda a stretch.

[Pyros]

They already stretched lore quite a bit to have those 2 sides. Alliances between races are rare enough, especially on a large scale, hell for some they even have trouble with their own kins. Like orcs and goblins, don't always mix up well, orcs don't like goblins because they're too cowardly, while goblins don't like orcs because they're too stupid/brutish. Chaos has its own factions with the various deities, and like khorne/tzeentch and nurgle/slaaneesh are pretty much straight opposites within the chaos ranks. Having elves ally with dwarves, is also quite a stretch.

Usually in warhammer, when there's alliance, it's small alliances, for specific fights through a war, and with very specific conditions. So since there's already Order vs Destruction, slapping the lizard with order and skavens with destruction would work fine really. A sad thing is, it leave no room for undeads. All the undead armies are all fucking great, and I liked them better than skaven, at least for base warhammer. Skaven in bloodbowl were fucking awesome though, with their insane runners, but that's another story ^^.

All this is moot toward the excitement of Tyranids annoucement in Dawn of War2 though. War40K > War. Even straight race to race comparison it's better, Orks are so much better than Orcs, and Eldars way less gay than Elves ^^.

[Kobalt]

Duno, the 40k dwarves sound kinda gay. Bikers IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE

Agree otherwise though, seems like games workshop put some effort into 40k, while fantasy is mostly generic except maybe skaven.

[Axire]

So shaman any good then? Have to finally pick a decent class this time around rather than being fucked up the arse class wise in every game ive played so far.

Nightshade in daoc, Hunter in WoW, Ranger in AoC.

Need the fucking powerhouse class this time around!

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

...wasted potential...wasted into a wow clone targetting a casual player audience with no wish to create an innovative or outstanding game.

LOL WHAT? I'm sorry, but this brought back some memories. No offense, but I couldn't even read the rest of your post. Even the fucking thread titles are similar enough to be freaky.

Vanguard NDA lifted - get your popcorn ready

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

I just played several hours, but its the most wow-like wow-clone I have ever seen. Rights down to the controls, interface position, interface look and so on. And the PvE was just as entertaining/and boring.

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

And the current VG build looks 100% like wow-redone.

I know some people dislike WoW but seriously, dude, wtf...

[Kragg Goremaw]

Originally Posted by Rhym

There's a ton of Evil races that would go well with Chaos: Vampires/Undead, Skaven I spose, Ogres, Beastmen. The only race I could see being added to Order are Wood Elves, but that would be quite boring. Warhammer doesn't exactly have a lot of good races in it. Heck, the Humans are amazingly fucked up and evil themselves.

The problem with defining Warhammer races in to good or evil is that they are all just shades of gray but if you wanted to do it game style I'd go with something like.

Order: Empire, Dwarves, High Elves, Bretonnians.

Destruction: Chaos mortals, Deamons, Beast of Chaos, Skaven, Vampire Counts, Greenskins, and Dark Elves.

Neutral: Ogres/Goblars, Wood Elves (and their Tree Spirits friends), Tomb Kings, Lizardmen.

You could easily work the story to have most of the good or evil races working together and swing a few like Wood Elves and Lizardmen to good or Ogres to either side. Tomb Kings would be a little harder I'd think.

I'd love to see Ogres work as mercs that can help out the underdog side but then I'm just biased!

[Kobalt]

Hey anyone that played both a black orc and chosen mind giving some diferences(besides the obvious mechanic differences, difference in dps etc). Played them both a little but never a template, and never even that high lvl since I didn't want to burn out before the game was even out.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Axire

So shaman any good then? Have to finally pick a decent class this time around rather than being fucked up the arse class wise in every game ive played so far.

Nightshade in daoc, Hunter in WoW, Ranger in AoC.

Need the fucking powerhouse class this time around!

While the first and last sure sucked, hunters in wow were powerhouses if you knew how to play them and/or had good gear. They were arguably one of the worst PvP class in early wow though, but I still enjoyed mine in BGs by being the best flag defender ever ^^. Once they redid talents, they became real good at PvP though, and I could actually kill pretty much anyone but excelent rogues with all their cooldowns in 1vs1, and easily top any BG scoreboard in damage/kill done. They did take more thinking than most other classes due to range issues but well.

As for shamans in war, I haven't played much, but it seems to be one of the powerful classes. Useful in group, good solo, probably quite crowded though.

[Kobalt]

Thought hunters were always pretty powerful imo, old spirit bond was kind of insane. But then it was nerfed right before I hit 60 so it might have just seemed strong lvling up.