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[PerritoBites]

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

What makes it worse is every game has a solid 4+ ironbreakers. Ironbreaker knockback has a 10 second cooldown, hits multiple targets, and snares. They have a morale knockback that roots. Ironbreaker knockback for some reason punts for a distance 2-3x longer and higher than a chosen's. So I have a single target, 30 second cooldown, 1/3 of the distance knockback that, even if by some miracle it does get someone into the lava, doesn't kill them because they run out unsnared.

Do we also spit fireballs and shoot lightning out of our ass?

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Froofy-D

What Destruction class(es) get a similar ability? As an Order Healer I get it on me a lot. It doesn't do much damage but it makes you waste time healing/dispelling yourself.

I believe it's the chosen tactic Tainted Wound, at least when it happens to me it's that. It's not quite as powerful though, just gives a basic chosen debuff a backlash.

About IB knockback, there's a basic single target knockback that it supposedly the most powerful base knockback ingame(haven't found it particularly powerful myself, but whatever, let's say it's at Point blank morale level), a tactic that requires DPS tree spec to get, I believe you need lvl 25 to get it first, which makes our AE into a knockback+snare(weak kb but good enough for tor anroc bridges), and no morale that kb. We get Rock Cluthc at 28, which roots and does damage, rank1 morale, and a rank2 morale every tank gets at 16, Champion's Challenge. The issue is, roots don't prevent kbs, so you can be rooted, then kbed, for a sure death pretty much. This happens for every class that can root and kb, which are squigs, shadowwarriors, bright wizards, all the tanks, magus/engineer and I think that's it.

[Ashes Emberblade]

Originally Posted by PerritoBites

Do we also spit fireballs and shoot lightning out of our ass?

In Tor Anroc? Yes.

Pyros: Chosen doesn't have a root, and I'm pretty sure BO doesn't either.. Ironbreaker ae and single target knockback get 2-3x the distance / air time compared to a chosen's. One theory is that there's a height component to the kb. I don't buy that, but any way you shake it IBs really have an advantage in tor anroc.

The last game I played two ibs punted 6 of our team into lava while we were standing right in front of our spawn up against the wall farthest from the lava.

The whole issue is that ironbreakers have crowd control abilities on par with a squig herder/engineer and a tank's survivability.

[Tullaeniel]

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

Pyros: Chosen doesn't have a root, and I'm pretty sure BO doesn't either.. Ironbreaker ae and single target knockback get 2-3x the distance / air time compared to a chosen's. One theory is that there's a height component to the kb. I don't buy that, but any way you shake it IBs really have an advantage in tor anroc.

I have had the same issue on my chosen. At first I simply thought I was crasy and being a bitch, I mean a knockback is a knockback right? Well after dozens of times where I knocked back Order players a total of 2-3 inches and in return got punted the distance of a goddamn football field I knew something wasn't right.

As far as I can tell it is an issue with the Z-axis where the Ironbreakers being short knockback at a upward angle causing people to fly helplessly into the lava in Tor Anroc. On the reverse of that when trying to punt a runepriest or ironbreaker you are knocking them back at a downward angle or into the ground. On characters like elves and humans you will do a straight knockback but even then you aren't knocking them up in the Air. It's bullshit and I don't know if it's intentional but that's the best conclusion I can come to after reading different forums on the issue.

[Snugglebear]

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do IronBreakers keep their healers alive? Do they use the Oathfriend and then just punt/knockback everyone attacking their priest?

[daishinzo]

I've been knocked off stuff more by zealots than anything else but I am also going after them majority of the time. I wish my server had your 4+ IB problem. Scenarios usually consist of 2-4 bad healers, 1-2 good healers and a smattering of DPS with nary a tank in sight. Occasionally some bad SM will be running out with a 2hander but not focused on actually being a tank.

Also after tonights 3 hours of scenarios I wish I could team kill with a passion.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Ashes Emberblade

In Tor Anroc? Yes.

Pyros: Chosen doesn't have a root, and I'm pretty sure BO doesn't either.. Ironbreaker ae and single target knockback get 2-3x the distance / air time compared to a chosen's. One theory is that there's a height component to the kb. I don't buy that, but any way you shake it IBs really have an advantage in tor anroc.

The last game I played two ibs punted 6 of our team into lava while we were standing right in front of our spawn up against the wall farthest from the lava.

The whole issue is that ironbreakers have crowd control abilities on par with a squig herder/engineer and a tank's survivability.

Chosen: Petrify - Abilities - Warhammer Online
BO: Where You Going? - Abilities - Warhammer Online

That's the root I'm talking of, and every tank gets it, it's a class defining skills, like RDPS root at 10, guard, AE heals at 20 and so on. You definitely can't kb someone from the spawn wall into lava either, unless he moves away from the wall, due to collision. Can't get a straight line away from the wall, so the target won't go toward lava. Pretty sure Repel is just as strong as Away with Ye too, would need to test it but I don't have a chosen to fraps it with and compare. The BO kb is an AE like the SM kb, and thus is weaker in strength.

The IB CC isn't superior to the chosen. They trade the ae kb+snare tactic for an AE knockdown and a single 3s knockdown for a single 4s knockdown in masteries. Other than that, they have the same root, the same snare, the same single target kb. You can tactic Repel down to 10secs too, Away with Ye is an unmodifiable 20secs.

So let's stop with the Ironbreaker stuff, yes they're probably better than all the other tanks, but not because of CC or utility, only because their DPS is higher than a chosen when using a shield(and maybe without too) due to grudge scaling. And that difference isn't THAT big either, they just need to reduce max grudge damage and increase lower grudge damage and it should be fine.

[Kirby]

Do they have any plans on making leveling easier i just hit 22 and the idea of 18 more levels kills me. I played EQ and grinded like mad in WoW but this grind seems so much worse.

[daishinzo]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Do they have any plans on making leveling easier i just hit 22 and the idea of 18 more levels kills me. I played EQ and grinded like mad in WoW but this grind seems so much worse.

I don't even notice the grind at all. Que for scenario. Grind some inf and as of late I've started to try out questing again since chap 12+. An hour or two passes and I've leveled while getting the bulk of my exp in PVP.

But I have a solid guild and I'm not in some sort of mad rush. Getting ahead of the pack just means long ques and being forced to really grind.

[Fog]

I'm 28/25 (witch elf) and I'm playing fairly casually -- like 2-3 hours a day since release -- and doing absolutely zero grinding. I just queue for scenarios and move through the Dark Elf storyline. Are you playing the same game?

[Ashes Emberblade]

Originally Posted by Pyros

The IB CC isn't superior to the chosen. They trade the ae kb+snare tactic for an AE knockdown and a single 3s knockdown for a single 4s knockdown in masteries. Other than that, they have the same root, the same snare, the same single target kb. You can tactic Repel down to 10secs too, Away with Ye is an unmodifiable 20secs.

So let's stop with the Ironbreaker stuff, yes they're probably better than all the other tanks, but not because of CC or utility, only because their DPS is higher than a chosen when using a shield(and maybe without too) due to grudge scaling. And that difference isn't THAT big either, they just need to reduce max grudge damage and increase lower grudge damage and it should be fine.

My posts have been within the context of Tor Anroc, which is the only T3 scenario that is played on my server. At level 26 my cc abilities are: 20s cooldown single target knockback. A level 23 ironbreaker, with proper spec that they all have just for Tor Anroc, has: ae knockback with snare on a 10s cooldown, a single target knockback on a 20s cooldown.

Again, ironbreaker knockbacks have 2-3x the distance/air time of mine. They will literally knock a chosen or black orc from the drop down ledge at spawn diagonally into the lava. From the top of the tower where the bauble spawns the knockback will send every player it hits into the lava.

In Tor Anroc knockback is king. It can effectively kill a player in one key press. If I run in with two other melee and attack a healer behind Order's lines, and we all three get knocked into lava, that's a game breaker right there.

The only effective strategy Destruction has right now is to use a marauder to get the bauble first, which we do every time, and that really needs fixed, then turtle in the corner by our spawn that's really far away from the lava. If we drop the bauble and it goes to middle, or order picks it up and runs back, we're done, because EVERY other place to fight in the map is in range of an ironbreaker's knockback into the lava.

I think it's silly to call ironbreakers overpowered because they do really well in one scenario, in one tier, of such a huge game. But unfortunately the only way to level is by doing scenarios, and for destruction the only T3 scenario order queues for is Tor Anroc.

Some serious changes to this scenario need to be made. Foremost, the bauble needs a 5 second pickup timer that can be interrupted. Turtling needs to be discouraged, so the bauble should only award points if it's held in the middle of the map. The lava needs to be toned down. It shouldn't snare and it should do minimal damage. Finally, handing off the bauble is pretty stupid. Make it do no damage to the holder, but weaken their defenses to incoming damage over time.

Finally, queue for some other god damn scenario. Please.

[Sealody]

Originally Posted by Kirby

Do they have any plans on making leveling easier i just hit 22 and the idea of 18 more levels kills me. I played EQ and grinded like mad in WoW but this grind seems so much worse.

The game was launched 3 weeks ago and you're mad that you aren't at or closer to max level already? WoW's leveling is a joke. They should just give you a max char when you sign up. I definally do not feel grinding for xp in EQ1 to be even comparable to this. I'm gaining about a level a nite in war which feels like a pretty good pace so far. I'm currently 31/30 now.

[Pyros]

You need 25 to get the AE kb tactic. At 28 chosen get AE knockdown. Tor anroc is pretty popular because it's fast, so even if you lose you don't lose too much time, but on our server, even though tor anroc pops fast, if you're willing to wait 4-5mins between scenarios, you can get temple of isha ones now that they switched places. They're not as common, but happen often.

Still need to check knockback strength, I'm pretty sure IB and chosen kb are about the same, I get kbed across the map by chosens if I'm in the middle too, and there ground is uneven on the map so you can kb from a lower position, leading to higher kbs(and more distance). Wish I had a chosen laying around to test distance on even ground, only have a magus dok and witch elf on destruction side.

[Rhym]

Temple of Isha seems to have a huge graphical problem. It lags every single player in our guild except for 1 horribly. The objective is the source of the lag. If we're out on the grass or anywhere else it is fine, but as soon as you even pan the camera over to that thing the Framerate starts dropping.

Favorite scenario at T3 is Highpass Cemetary, but sadly you have to wait a while for it to pop :/

[[LVC]DeGrassi]

I am a 28 IB, and while I can knockpeople pretty damn far, I have myself been punted from the middle to the lava in front of my spawn .. it all depends on the height and angle you hit them, sometimes I do the ae knockback and 3 WE's go back about 10 feet, run back in and murder my ass in sub 10 sec, this is with close to 6k Hp. Other times I run up to 3 marauders and send them flying into the drink. It just depends if your lower than said other person and what the terrain looks like behind them.


I have had shaman or the squig thing shoot me back hella far, just as far as anyone I have hit. hell zealots as of late have gotten balsey and rush the front line sending our whole team in.


Anyway I love this game, love pvp, love everything about it .. trying to decided what to play atm, stuck between my IB or my Engineer, both seem so fun .. hard to put time into both without wanting to play the other.