[FFXI] How long is too long?

[AladainAF]

I don't really see the problem. Its pretty refreshing to see that theres still a game that is difficult/challenging/time consuming and hard as fuck for the hardest of the hardcore.

Newsflash: If you can't handle the fight, or have the ridiculous amount of time necessary to kill it, don't do it. Like Vinen said, this reminded of me the droves of people who flooded the EQ boards about how ridiculously difficult, time consuming, and non-rewarding plane of growth was in Velious.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

this reminded of me the droves of people who flooded the EQ boards about how ridiculously difficult, time consuming, and non-rewarding plane of growth was in Velious.

What the fuck boards did you read? PoGrowth was by FAR teh easiest way of getting velious armor sets. It was easy enough 1 group could do it, not time consuming at all as even the trash mobs at the zone dropped armor and rewarding as fucking hell as you were getting armor about equal to the stuff people had to do kael arena and ToV for (which also required faction for turn ins), both areas far harder than PoG.

oh and dont forget every mob dropped gems worth 100+ pp. damn was that place not rewarding!

Also you could gimp the whole fucking zone by bringing a druid or ranger to harmony the whole place making pulls a joke.

[Ham n Cheese]

Yeah even family guilds did Growth for armor while the big boys played in TOV

[Zurren]

As long as the inability to beat this boss doesn't block progression to other major areas of the game then hrmm, so what?

While it does seem a bit silly, and I think I'd rather gouge out my eyes then be part of a 24hr zerg fest on an encounter in a MMORPG. But, just because it's there doesnt mean it NEEDS to be easily beatable by anyone.

[Grizzlebeard]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

I don't really see the problem. Its pretty refreshing to see that theres still a game that is difficult/challenging/time consuming and hard as fuck for the hardest of the hardcore.

Time =/= Difficulty.

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Bongk

What the fuck boards did you read? PoGrowth was by FAR teh easiest way of getting velious armor sets. It was easy enough 1 group could do it, not time consuming at all as even the trash mobs at the zone dropped armor and rewarding as fucking hell as you were getting armor about equal to the stuff people had to do kael arena and ToV for (which also required faction for turn ins), both areas far harder than PoG.

The sony boards. Allakazham (which still has some archived). Several others at the time.

I'm not talking about PoG difficulty weeks after. I'm simply saying that when it was released, the instant cries of "ITS TOO HARD!!!" permiated the community. Yes, PoG is easy, and turned out to be easy, but that didn't change people to say "Its too hard" the first week or so it was live.

Time =/= Difficulty.

I never said that.

Zurren pretty much echoed my thoughts overall. I mean really - if it takes too long, is too hard, or whatever, just don't do it. Period.

[Cybsled]

Clearing PoG was gay if all you were after was Tunare. We would just let twinks/noobs/friends tag along to loot the armor drops. I remember my old friend shitting himself with joy when we gave him the Tunare whip cause no one wanted it ;p

[Zurren]

It's always bugged me how MMORPG players seem to have this attitude of entitlement of "Just because I'm paying a monthly fee, I should be able to reasonable accomplish every last bit of content within the game"

I like the idea of things being near impossible, or some things only being available to the most dedicated/hardcore/skilled. Hell, just because you can beat something once doesn't mean it should be beatable again with ease.

I liked how Plane of Sky used to be pretty much done 'for the challenge of doing it' - I dont think the rewards were ever that great? But hell, some of the islands were damn hard - the challenge of doing it was fun, and doing something that you knew hardly anyone else in the game could pull off was rewarding enough in it's own ways. Thankfully PoS was setup in such a way that you didnt need to 20hr marathon it and could divide it up into chunks over a few days.

Hell, I think it'd be pretty damn cool if a boss encounter was setup in such a way that it took a week to complete, but with various 'stages' that you could stop and rest - but still had a 90% chance of failure at the end and having to start over, as long as there was some rewards along the way and the ability to stop. Shit like that shouldn't be the norm, and shouldn't be blocking any form of progression, but more of a "hot damn we did it!" feeling and maybe some great loot - but not the type of encounter you'd see people farming every week, and if people did bitch its too hard, I'd like to see the devs stick to some balls and say "so what - just because its there doesn't mean it should be readily/easily beatable"

[Zehn - Vhex]

You're pretty much retarded. Don't ever post again. Thanks.

"Hey guys...there should be an encounter that gives rewards along the way and you can take breaks every so often and..."

That's called a raid zone. If you want to create a raid zone where you're attacking like sections of a giant boss, sure fine, cool concept. But don't even begin to think these two things are in the same goddamn ballpark.

It's good that there are games out there with poopsock encounters. FFxi keeps those people from shitting up other games.

Yes, if the barrier to entry is too much for you don't do it I agree. I don't arena because I don't feel like rerolling one of the classes that can get to 2200 rating by facerolling.

But that doesn't mean you can't point out how fucking stupid a boss that takes 20 consecutive hours to beat is.

Comparing this shit to PoG is a fucking joke.

[AladainAF]

I didnt compare it to pog for fucks sake.... I just said that people whining about encounter difficulty reminded me about people whining about PoG being so fucking hard, because they didnt know how to do it. Thats all. There was no comparison said, or intended. It just reminded me that people love to whine about shit they can't do. Its even stupider to whine about it when its not a progression mob/zone.

[Lithose]

Originally Posted by Vinen

Ok, people shouldn't talk about shit they don't understand. That goes for the players who are trying to learn the fight! Much like AV (Another "Impossible Encounter"); people don't understand the mechanics behind the fight.

I'd say less then twenty groups of people gamewide of haved spawned this event IF EVEN.

The article is the same as someone saying. HI GUYS WE FOUGHT VULAK FIRST TIME LOLOLOL DIDN"T KNOW WHAT TO DO TO BEAT HIM BUT HELD HIM FOR TWENTY HOURS LALLALALAALALOLOLCOPTER!

What do you want Square to do? Add Enrage timers like Blizzard did to make everything into a DPS race with WoW?

If a mobs allows you to fight it for 18+ hours without you "running" out of periodic resources (Mana or whatever.) then the encounter is way way too easy or broken.

The fact that it can be zerged is laughable...But allowing it to go 18 hours? bad design is bad.


"The way you beat it is by having someone ride a pink chocobo, using save the queen sword, wearing green spandex and with the spikey hair cut, with a name that starts with H, ride straight up the monsters ass at exactly 4pm! ITS THAT SIMPLE, DUH!"

[Mazim]

Originally Posted by Vinen

Ok, people shouldn't talk about shit they don't understand. That goes for the players who are trying to learn the fight! Much like AV (Another "Impossible Encounter"); people don't understand the mechanics behind the fight.

Considering the developers have stated the mob your referring to(AV) could take up to 18 hours to kill, Id suggest you take your own advice.

[Aikar]

Vinen (Come back to FFXI noob! and join levi with me) &

Originally Posted by Sudden

I think what Vinen meant is that many encounters in FFXI require certain things to be done before they can be beaten. For instance it could be something like a thief needing to steal an item off him before he can take damage. Whatever it is, just because it hasn't been figured out yet and a group of people banged their heads on a wall for 18 hours, doesn't a broken game make.

SE recently announced last month at the Summit that AV was designed to be an 18 hr fight, or 10-12 if your really good on his 2hr usage. Id say its very well designed to be 18 hrs+ long.

The LS who fought Pande had no problems actually FIGHTING him, and i heard no reports of their damage being nerfed, so there really is not much a secret.

The problem is the lamps (adds) have like 35k HP EACH, and he spawns 8 of them. It takes the linkshell about an hour to kill all of them on each form alone because of the giant amount of HP on each one combined with the fact they share aggro with PW, making them run around the zone like crazy making it hard to keep up with them.

Theres really nothing challenging about 'not being able to DD it' that wasnt 'figured out', it was just too much HP.

And I VERY HONESTLY doubt that SE added a way to automatically drop a mobs HP by 30k by some weakness or make people do double damage to them (which would still take a long ass time)

It's always bugged me how MMORPG players seem to have this attitude of entitlement of "Just because I'm paying a monthly fee, I should be able to reasonable accomplish every last bit of content within the game"

If your in the top linkshell on your server, and able to conquer everything else in the game beyond these 2 mobs (well besides BTL who actually did beat AV in a 25 hour fight... yep... 25 hrs for AV.. but they took breaks on that by having someone zombie it for a while to keep it from regening), and able to fight it down to its last form, then id say you damn well have the entitlement to defeat it, but it shouldnt cost you your health to do so.

You better damn well believe i believe that inexperienced shells also shouldnt be able to beat mobs like AV or PW, but I'm not one of those people, I need more challenge.
edit and vinen:

That goes for the players who are trying to learn the fight! Much like AV (Another "Impossible Encounter"); people don't understand the mechanics behind the fight.

Mochi, one the SE devs/producers/w/e the hell his title is himself said that he plays XI Alot and that his linkshell can not defeat AV and gave up trying.
SE doesnt even know how the hell to defeat it.

[Horse]

Hey guys, what if they put this one encounter in a game where it was really hard and took many time to win+++ ????

I'd say people who spent that time and effort deserved it and I look forward to the next challenge of my dedication/skill/patience/time consuming.

I also love the concept that 20 hours in a row is somehow not healthy but thousands of thousands of hours spread out over the course of years is just fine. AOOOOO MY HEALTH IS FAILING, MUST KILL MOB FOR VIDEO GAME ACCOMPLISHMENT



Best part:

"People were passing out and getting physically ill. We decided to end it before we risked turning into a horrible new story about how video games ruin people’s lives."

Yeah, CLEARLY YOU'RE SAFE FROM THAT


ps -> "Sylphet has also informed me that several members of BtL actually ended up vomiting by the end of the night from their intense focusing with no breaks for 18 hours." is totally pussy. Told u i was hardcore

[Bongk]

A poopsock just doesn't cut it for FF... poopsocks are for WoW n00bs.

Instead you need to tie off the leg of a pair of sweat pants, we will call it a poopleg, you better IV's to stay hydrated and nourished, a massage chair or a masseuse (sp) to keep you from tightening up and cramping while sitting on the edge of your seat for that tense 20 hours kill, and of course a pocket pussy to relieve some of the stress of a 20 hour harcore l33t killshot.

Serisouly what does a application look like for a guild that needs that kind of commitment. Must be single, have no friends, no job, be able to sit at your computer for 24+ hours straight at full contentration. And of course poopleg is required!

Sign me up bitches!