Shane Kim Addresses Microsoft's MMO Difficulties

[Mist]

Originally Posted by masteen

The limits of the controller have to be taken into account when making a console-MMO.

Burrowing down into a menu tree during real-time combat sucks balls. Need a game like Guild Wars where you are limited in the powers you can load onto your character, or maybe a fairly simple D-pad combo pattern like Street Fighter 2 used to have (I'm assuming the analog sticks will be for movement and camera rotation).

Slap some kind of distance-volume algorithm onto the global voice channel, and I think all the necessary controls are taken care of. There's really no need for an auction channel if you have a robust enough market interface or simple enough crafting system.

The problem is that most console MMOs are still trying to copy PC MMOs or existing RPGs. There are just too many elements that don't translate to do this.

The limits of the keyboard/mouse controller configuration are also being reached though, sadly. Look at AoC's combat system.

[Pest]

Doesn't MS own the rights to one the battlemech series of games? I can't remember which one though. They may not sell 1 million copies of it but a good MMO based around Mechs would sell well.

[Horse]

I fail to see why a console MMO wouldn't be fine. An XBOX360 is more powerful than the computer I started playing WoW with.

Plug in keyboard and mouse (or a superior hybrid), require HD, require subscription.
What am I missing?

MMOS are resistant to piracy, not consoles.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by Arbuste

It's true. But MMOs cannot really be pirated anyway. Non-official servers are a very different experience.

And about keyboards... you don't need them to play online games anymore. Voice chat is sufficient, and arguably better. You might just need better controlers.

I agree on this point. I dunno if it's neccesarily better, voice chat is much more difficult to ignore, but a keyboard isn't really a necessity.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by Arbuste

And about keyboards... you don't need them to play online games anymore. Voice chat is sufficient, and arguably better.

No it's not. It's one thing to use voice chat when playing something like TF2, where it's used infrequently, and another to have to listen to some 11 year old kid shouting during a raid, or some deep voiced Texan dude playing an elf chick. It's okay in small doses, but annoying as hell when you're exposed to it over and over.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Digits

What the fuckers need to realize is that you cannot pump out Blizzards numbers without a huge fanbase

Halo, yo. 313k people online at once on Halo 3 recently? Heh. That's not a small number.

There is a rather big problem though aside from the whole fanbase thing though - The Initial Investment. Putting out a WoW-quality MMO right now would probably take upwards of 350 million in development costs and a good 8 years of development.

WoW wasn't cheap and it wasn't fast. Vanguard was piss in a bucket compared to how much money has been pumped into WoW.

[Kragg Goremaw]

A good console MMO won't be around until the next generation and even then it won't be what we think of when it comes to standard MMOs.

What is a MMO besides a persistent world with a bunch of players? You've already got 10 million people playing and leveling in CoD4, the maps work like an instance does, all you need to do is add more depth to the character classes and give a world hub like in Guild Wars/Shattrath that sets the story and persistence aspects.

Fuck keyboards and mice, voice chat and controllers/motion control will give you want you need, Take something like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Gears of War, Halo, or StarCraft and build a better Planetside and you'll rule the console MMO roost.

[jayrebb]

Originally Posted by NativityInBlack

Inc Fable online!

The newbie zone will be filled with kids, literally. The end game will be good vs. evil players. In-game marriage support, ffa kills on cheating wives.

MS was right to jump away from VG, well actually if they gave Brad another 50 mi and another year perhaps the game would be decent.

The damage was already done. Microsoft insiders said Brad was immune to supervision and when they would ask him for some progress he would literally say "We did EQ1, fuck off". This came straight from microsoft employees. After about 1 year of zero progress reports and arrogant responses, they finally found the testosterone in their balls to drop the hammer on Brad's ass. And sure enough, he had nothing accomplished except fake product demos.

Vanguard wasted years of microsoft's potential MMO development.

[woqqqa]

Originally Posted by jayrebb

Microsoft insiders said Brad was immune to supervision and when they would ask him for some progress he would literally say "We did EQ1, fuck off".

You know, it's for situations like this that tasers were invented.

Brad: "Fuck you! I'm the golden boy of the MMO industry!"
Microsoft Rep: "Show us a working product now...or" -holds up taser to McQuaid's face-

We might've actually gotten a decent game out of him that way.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Froofy-D

Pretty tough to make a decent MMO without a keyboard. Next gen XBOX will likely have one so console MMOs will have to wait till then.

Umm, I had a keyboard on my PS2 playing EQOA what 5 years ago? Next gen? ok...

[Sythrak]

About the only benefit I see to a MMO based on a console is not having to deal with all the various hardware incompatibilities. It sounds like unless you're a first party developer though it's a nightmare to get one off the ground. Third party dev's have to jump through a massive amount of hoops to get a game like that running according to a past thread from Gallenite.

I'm probably in the minority when I say once I got used to the UI in FFXI it was actually pretty enjoyable being able to lay back and just use a gamepad instead of a mouse and keyboard (this was with the modified FFXI windower however, fuck not being able to see other players TP). If you're going to use a console, you might as well just use the controls provided, otherwise just use the PC.

[Fammaden]

Yeah kicking back and grinding away a few hours of exp a night with my controller was pretty chill in a way. It made me never want to lean up and use the KB to type though (played with controller on PC). I would abuse the hell out of the auto translator and just say Yes, please. No. Alright. and shit all the time instead of having many conversations.

[Shaof]

Step 1: Build a huge fan base on a successful, polished non-MMO genre.

Step 2: Hire developers/designers that are gamers.

Step 3: Make an MMO based on step 1.

Step 4: Profit.

[RunningDog]

Originally Posted by Shaof

Step 1: Build a huge fan base on a successful, polished non-MMO genre.

Step 2: Hire developers/designers that are gamers.

Step 3: Make an MMO based on step 1.

Step 4: Profit.

Halo MMO? But the market men will look at Planetside and shake their heads.

[Kragg Goremaw]

Originally Posted by RunningDog

Halo MMO? But the market men will look at Planetside and shake their heads.

Then you just point to Call of Duty 4 and bring up instances. I'm telling you, with instances/BGs a sci-fi/action MMO can work. You have ad support and drop the monthly to 9.99$ or so and you are golden for a console MMO.

Battlefield and Call of Duty already touch on the leveling/gearing aspect of MMOs, now you just need to give people a reason to fight and add a little more depth to the classes/gear and you are set.

Step up a story, set up a system that tallies up wins/objectives met and at the end of the day/week a zone is taken over by one faction or another. Zones provide bonuses for holding them but at the same time farther from you home zone the longer it takes to get supplies.

The main capital zones can be taken over but the underdog/losing side shifts a little and has multiple starting bases with new weapons/abilities and they work like a guerrilla force trying to recapture some land/cut supply lines. If they recapture their capital they switch back to a normal army.