Shane Kim Addresses Microsoft's MMO Difficulties

[Agraza]

Knowing that your console plays every single piece of software released for it makes the console a very different beast. That is just one of many key differences for the consumer. Producers know consoles are more resistant to piracy, and they don't need to program support for a multitude of hardware capabilities.

The whole thing is simpler for everyone.

[Maleficence]

The xbox 360 does have keyboard support both by plugging in a USB keyboard and also by buying an attachment called the Text Messaging Kit that hooks up to your regular X360 controller. It's what the guys in Vanguard were using to play when I went to visit their studio in 2004.

[Grizzlebeard]

While nowhere near the 10 mil mark FFXI has (supposedly) maintained a steady 500k subscriptions over the last few years and that game is playable on PS2/3, Xbox360, and PC. Granted, one of the major gripes with that game is that the graphical development of the game is tied to the lowest common denominator, namely the PS2. Future developments on multiple platforms need to either bear this in mind or offer some functionality that allows players on more powerful machines to enjoy the game at a higher graphical performance.

[Lyrical]

Honestly, I thought the bigger issue with MSFT was not just console MMO's, but MMO's in general. They just seem to either kill their MMO's before launch, or they don't pick them right.

[Lalala]

Originally Posted by Simas

Cant you hook up a keyboard to a 360?

Not that console MMO's are a good idea. They are not.

IM coming to Xbox 360, keyboard accessory this summer - Joystiq

been out for a year, work well even if it is small.

[nosf]

Originally Posted by Lalala

IM coming to Xbox 360, keyboard accessory this summer - Joystiq

been out for a year, work well even if it is small.

Regular keyboards work as well, makes setup a lot easier for sure.

[kaid]

I could see the new DC game working well on a console the control and pacing looked like they should work great for a game pad. Just hookup the mic so you can chat to your friends and maybe the lil keyboard attatchment thingy for those times you won't want to talk and you are good to go.

The problem is if they are aiming at WoW level subs they are in for a disapointment. The problem is wow has a HUGE rabid fanbase that would buy their games if they pooped in a box and called it shitcraft. Combined with the fact that although slower than hell they do usually wind up making a fun game most people will buy anything they make as its likely to be fun and playable.

The only other company who is making an MMO that could possibly do something similar maybe BioWare doing the new kotor mmo. Unless something sneaks out that just kicks so many kinds of ass word of mouth eventually brings folks in droves but that will be a damn hard mountain to climb.

[Grizzlebeard]

I'd imagine for any game to approach even half of WoW's subs it'd need to have a significant amount of PvP. It might have been some strange cheese-induced dream but I'm sure I read somewhere that the majority of the Asian subscribers are PvP whores. That in itself defines what kind of game you are able to produce from the get go.

[Man0warr]

The problem is wow has a HUGE rabid fanbase that would buy their games if they pooped in a box and called it shitcraft.

Shitcraft?! That sounds awesome, I'd totally play a fecal-based RTS game.

[Presarc]

I don't understand why companies with the resources like Microsoft don't do the EXACT SAME THING THAT BLIZZARD DID if they want to make a good MMO. What did Blizzard do? Among other things, they:

- Chose a world for their MMO that had one overarching theme and vision (Horde VS Alliance, easy/fun before anything else)

- Hire a small team of accomplished artists that design the look and feel of the game -- the rest of the team just copies these people

- Hire a smaller group of current MMO players (guild leaders, non-Blizzard shakers and movers, if you will) -- i.e. Furor, Tigole, etc. These people KNOW WHAT THEY WANT in a good MMO.

- Release a product that, while not perfect or complete in any sense, feels complete for the consumer.


Tweak the lesser aspects of the game, and you have yourself a successful MMO. Every MMO that has come out since WoW has arguably failed, and you can attribute it to not doing some of these things. Age of Conan? Tried to do WAY too much, which in the end gives us a buggy, ultra-unbalanced mess with nothing to do at max level. It hit the mark on several levels (graphical, etc), but the gameplay just didn't live up to even low expectations. Vanguard? We all know what happened there -- poor management of the team and of the product's cycle and development in general.

[Sharmai]

There problem is they see money and want to find a way to bring money in to them. What they need to do is find a gamer and find a game that will make that gamer want to play it over and over and over again.

Stop looking at it like a business model and start looking at it like a game. If they build a game then the money will come with it.

Also marketing research is going to fail right now. I mean if you think about it a lot of mmo players (in NA) are new and when asked what they want for their next mmo they are going to naturally say a high fantasy world like WoW. This is full of fail because you can't compete with WoW if your hoping to get more then a few hundred thousand subs.

They need to break into new genre's to find a way to tap into all the new players WoW brought it without risking overlapping in a way such that players can just say "WoW is better".

[Presarc]

Meh, forget it. Blizzard just needs to come out with Starcraft: Worlds, own every niche of the market, buy major controlling stakes in Microsoft and EA and rule the world.

[masteen]

The limits of the controller have to be taken into account when making a console-MMO.

Burrowing down into a menu tree during real-time combat sucks balls. Need a game like Guild Wars where you are limited in the powers you can load onto your character, or maybe a fairly simple D-pad combo pattern like Street Fighter 2 used to have (I'm assuming the analog sticks will be for movement and camera rotation).

Slap some kind of distance-volume algorithm onto the global voice channel, and I think all the necessary controls are taken care of. There's really no need for an auction channel if you have a robust enough market interface or simple enough crafting system.

The problem is that most console MMOs are still trying to copy PC MMOs or existing RPGs. There are just too many elements that don't translate to do this.

[Digits]

What the fuckers need to realize is that you cannot pump out Blizzards numbers without a huge fanbase, and the only way to develop such a fan base is repeatedly impressing them with quality entertainment over the course of years. Do they expect inexperienced game designers and coders to pump out anything that can be compared to WoW? The same WoW that took 5 years to create with massive investments by one of the most talented companies in the industry? Jesus, I thought Microsoft understood how gaming worked when the president of their X-Box division flat out said (paraphrased) 'The only thing X-Box gave us was a chance to make a name for ourselves. The investment won't return any revenue until the next generation of consoles.'

They need to invest for a decade if they want anything approaching WoW's numbers.

"Aim small, miss small" - Mel Gibson, true son of Jesus Christ and America

[Arbuste]

Originally Posted by Agraza

Producers know consoles are more resistant to piracy

It's true. But MMOs cannot really be pirated anyway. Non-official servers are a very different experience.

And about keyboards... you don't need them to play online games anymore. Voice chat is sufficient, and arguably better. You might just need better controlers.