[WoW] WotLK - Beta Patch Notes

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Necrath Evilcraft

Bears can break fear with Berserk.

3-minute cooldown. That doesn't really qualify, as any boss that fears is going to use it more often than that.

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

WoW does not need more BGs. BGs are a cesspit of failure and stupidity that drain your will to live simply by proximity. The only way anyone ever has fun in BGs is if you're in a premade group that's rofflestomping the other teams in <5 minutes.

When I see people advertising in /trade and /lfg to specifically make LOSING BG groups, I know this to be true. People make groups that attempt to lose as fast as possible, so they can get their 60 or so WSG marks for their items ASAP and then never have to set foot in the shithole that is BGs again on that character. You get your honor points by running an anti-afk/autoqueue mod in AV overnight for a week, and get your marks by forming losing groups. This is because actually participating in the BG is about as enjoyable as invasive eye surgery.

I agree that currently BGs are a pretty horrible thing, but they don't have to be. There is no good reason I can't queue up solo, join a pug v pug BG and have fun. I do it all the time in TF2, why can't Blizz even come close to recreating it with BGs?

First, I think the current maps are just awful. CTF is a horrible game type at the best of times. With druids it just gets stupid. The non-linear nature of EoTS and AB is also a horrible idea. How hard is it to line up 5 control points in a map (a la cp_granary and cp_well) that way you don't need 3-5 people missing out on the fun and standing guard at all your nodes; a linear design gives you a coherent front and helps focus the action, just add different paths to help avoid one big cluster fuck and you're good to go. AV is the best of the bunch, its not perfect by any means (every BG needs to be mirrored on both sides and only the textures changed) but it is order of magnitudes better than the other 3.

But another major problem is that for a lot of people BGs are just a welfare line for old pvp epics. This of course is gonna cut down on the fun. Really they just need to make it a lot easier to get a somewhat decent gear set so you aren't spending most of your time as a gimp in BGs and can actually try and have fun.

[Ellsworth]

sorry to derail this thread about PvP.

I will probably be starting up a new character with a friend. He'll play a DK. Which is the best 'duoing' class to go with a DK? Spriest is not an option, nor is pally, rogue or hunter[i have max level characters of those already].

I'd like shaman, warlock. do either fit best with a DK?

[Zehn - Vhex]

Shaman goes well with pretty much anything.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

I agree that currently BGs are a pretty horrible thing, but they don't have to be. There is no good reason I can't queue up solo, join a pug v pug BG and have fun. I do it all the time in TF2, why can't Blizz even come close to recreating it with BGs?

First, I think the current maps are just awful. CTF is a horrible game type at the best of times. With druids it just gets stupid. The non-linear nature of EoTS and AB is also a horrible idea. How hard is it to line up 5 control points in a map (a la cp_granary and cp_well) that way you don't need 3-5 people missing out on the fun and standing guard at all your nodes; a linear design gives you a coherent front and helps focus the action, just add different paths to help avoid one big cluster fuck and you're good to go. AV is the best of the bunch, its not perfect by any means (every BG needs to be mirrored on both sides and only the textures changed) but it is order of magnitudes better than the other 3.

But another major problem is that for a lot of people BGs are just a welfare line for old pvp epics. This of course is gonna cut down on the fun. Really they just need to make it a lot easier to get a somewhat decent gear set so you aren't spending most of your time as a gimp in BGs and can actually try and have fun.

It doesn't matter what they make the BGs like. A very large portion of WoW's population are infantile mouthbreathing retards and any type of system that forces you to interact with them is going to be terrible. It's different from TF2 for two reasons:

1. In TF2 the admin, or on some servers the players via voting, can kick/ban the utter idiots.
2. You don't get any kind of lasting reward for repeatedly failing at everything in TF2.

[LadyVex]

Originally Posted by Burkex

Outland greens at 60 were better than t3 gear. This was pretty sad. As soon as you stepped into outlands green items were HUGE upgrades in many cases. All the months and months of hard work went right out the door. Reset button was pushed.

This never happened. Some items were slightly better itemized, but all of my classes that had t3 (Priest and Hunter) didn't replace most or all of their items until the level 70 dungeon teired loot, which made sense. And THEN because I hardcore raided all my t3 shit had the best enchants, so the dungeon blues weren't better unless I wanted to take the time to re-enchant my leveling gear with it.

Some items were better due to correct itemization and prioritizing of specific stats, but there were relatively few classes who took their t3 loot and swapped it all upon entering outlands. It got swapped between 68-70, like it should have. And then it was because Blizzard finally got itemization right in several cases.

And then there was some cases where you entered Kara and the set bonuses were so good on t3 it took awhile for you to replace it. (I heart you cryptstalker.)

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Shaman goes well with pretty much anything.

True facts right there. I'd say eleSham + DK is about the ideal DK duo (allowing easy access to "group" quests as well as decent grinding speed and small form AE) but enhance would work decently as well. A frost mage for AE-styled fun and free ports + food/water is another choice if you aren't sold on Sham or 'lock. Warlocks quite naturally grind and AE very well but I find the playstyle rarely partners well in tandems. I'm sure it would work though of course.

DKs (solo) at present are really not too reliant on healing so I'd lean towards a buffing/dps class or an AE class with a bit of healing on the side. Naturally a DK alone is leveling quite quickly anyhow so it's more of a question of what you want to run and what gaps you want to cover. Hell, double DK is possibly an ideal pairing for most stuff.

[Zerai]

LadyVex, it's not worth the effort. Those of us in T3 when we leveled to 70 understand. Everyone else replaced their T1 or blues and were like WHY IS IT SO MUCH FUCKING BETTER O M G. Everytime you debunk it, some new retard comes up and spews it out again.

The problem with BGs is that all they are is a gear grind. You aren't in there to have fun. The majority of people are there to a) get tokens b) get honour. Then with that, buy gear..so they can go do something else with their time.

This is why I liked Arenas. The fact that playtime was separate from rewards made me happy. To really rank up, yes, you had to play a lot. But the next week you could just do your 10 games, get your points and not play again for the rest of the week.

If people had read Zehn's ideas, of having an honour cap spending per week, you'd see more people doing it for fun. Because any more than the min, is just doing it for enjoyment. If you didn't enjoy it, you wouldn't be there~

Like comparing it to TF2, you didn't get gear for losing. But you also don't get gear for winning (don't mention the achievements, you max that out pretty quick, and people played before those.) The only reason you play TF2 is because you enjoy it. If it wasn't enjoyable, you wouldn't do it. BGs, you do even if you hate it, because you want the rewards. I only did it to get honour to buy my boots, bracer, rings, neck, belt. And that stupid fucking 40k trinket. Fuck that shit.

The problem, of course, is that if you remove the rewards from BGs, oh hey, almost no one does them. Why? BECAUSE THEY SUCK. And it would require blizzard to fix them to make them more fun. So you have this reward system tied into it..so that people do them.

[Lejina Bloodbath]

Originally Posted by Zerai

LadyVex, it's not worth the effort. Those of us in T3 when we leveled to 70 understand. Everyone else replaced their T1 or blues and were like WHY IS IT SO MUCH FUCKING BETTER O M G. Everytime you debunk it, some new retard comes up and spews it out again.

Retards need pretty pictures to understand.

Here's an example:
T3 paladin shoulder and what it was upgraded with (from Karazhan):

[Clug]

And what were the stats on Justice Seeker before the Karazhan loot upgrade patch?

[sumdain x]

In my opinion halaa wasn't an alternative to bgs as the loot was all substandard. Lake wintergrasp so far on beta has been a blast yes it gets a little slated toward one side or another at times but its decently fun. Now if they only added a warmaster in all the major cities that ported you to lake wintergrasp when it was about to begin, and then port you back when its over i see alot of people willing to compete.

Personally i absolutely despise arena im not going to beat a dead horse about the loot but something needs to be done more bg centric.

[Lejina Bloodbath]

Hah, someone -internet'ed me saying "Those pauldrons aren't green."

Apparently even with a picture some people still don't get it. No shit they aren't green, that is the whole point, greens were not upgrades for fucking T3, holy shit.

And what were the stats on Justice Seeker before the Karazhan loot upgrade patch?

Pauldrons of the Justice-Seeker
Binds when picked up
Shoulders Plate
951 Armor
+22 Stamina
+24 Intellect
Durability 100 / 100
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves Spell Critical Strike Rating by 20
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 51.
Equip: Restores 6 mana per 5 sec.

That is what my google-fu found anyway. Wasn't too much into healer loot at the time, so I havnt paid too much attention to how it has been upgraded. It's definitly prior the "let's give some dps to healers" patch anyway.

[Clug]

Ya, Kara was barely an upgrade to T3 before the Kara upgrade patch, just as I thought.

So yes, the greens > T3 is just stupid when even Kara was barely an upgrade.

[Rica86]

Originally Posted by Sabyn

How hard is it to line up 5 control points in a map (a la cp_granary and cp_well) that way you don't need 3-5 people missing out on the fun and standing guard at all your nodes; a linear design gives you a coherent front and helps focus the action, just add different paths to help avoid one big cluster fuck and you're good to go.

QFT. I've been playing a ton of Tf2 while waiting for wrath, and I don't see why a capture one point and others become locked system wouldn't be perfect. I've hated BG's since TBC came out, atleast in vanilla my priest and hunter friend could roll around owning atleast 2-3 times our numbers due to just utterly out gearing them, if nothing else. WSG is ass, it needs a time limit. AB is lame because I always feel compelled to guard a point because no one else wants to and end up not doing anything because like 1 or 2 people might come to your point while all the fighting is happening elsewhere. I won't even get started on EoTS. AV is just a retarded race now, they might as well just split the map in half and let people avoid having to even confront each other on their way to the generals.

But anyways, stupid pvp derail aside. I am really looking forward to playing a DK come the expansion as my new main, but i've really been trying to not get totally into it to save it as much as I can. But i started a hunter alt the other day for shits and giggles, and having not played a class that had any melee ability in forever, I forgot how fucking annoying "on next attack" special attacks are. Do Dk's have many if any of these? If so that would piss me off immensely and might make me even re-consider rolling one.

[DJk_zero]

That was always the problem with AV, that you didn't have to capture anything in order. It's why the zone degenerated into 10 minute rushes where you're lucky to even see another player while both teams zerged for the general.

Any new larger bg's with objective points like that need a cap in order system, as it actually promotes fighting. Scary thought for WoW "pvp", isn't it?