[WoW] WotLK - Beta Patch Notes

[Ukerric]

Originally Posted by Rica86

Might be a stupid question, but won't be the first or last time i bet. Are the base mana to spells/spirit equation change/1 pot in combat changes coming in the 3.0 patch?

Everything from the expansion, except Northrend and level 71-80 is coming in 3.0.

[Mageling]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

So what do we do when the fight doesn't factor a huge AE element that allows VE to make up for a 30%+ dps gap?

You sit them for someone who actually does a full person's worth of DPS, geez...

/sarcasm

Fuck Blizzard for saying that shadow priests are just fine currently.

[Asmadai]

Originally Posted by Horse

In progression having a DPS class that provides mana as well as group healing is a boon. The reason why it's being talked about is that it is essentially the only group heal offered by a dps class, and it's one of the few things that makes shadow unique.

You make many valid points; I can agree with you on most of them. VE has always been 'handy'. As some people have suggested, VE is highly useful in Sunwell encounters (still debatable I say), and to your points of it coming in handy in certain pre-Sunwell raid encounters and 5 man groups I still say it's merely 'handy'.

However, it's not the 'strong utility' people are painting it out to be, imo. I see it as more of a 'bonus' than anything else though. Tell me, when was the last time you heard "Hey, bring that SP along - their group health regen is the shit!" or "I love having me a SP in my group for them heals!" We aren't referred to as 'Mana-Batteries' because we regen Health. VE is not our 'strong utility', VT is. Again, VE comes in handy in certain situations, but it's not what we are best known for. People realize the added heals they got from VE after the fact; hell, most people are generally suprised to see how much we CAN heal with the ability.

My point of points I was trying to make originally, is that people are seemingly over hyping VE now due to the VT nerf. Our ability to heal with VE has always been referred to as a secondary bonus - never was it talked about with much fervor prior to this VT nerf. Now that we know the unique mana regen we brought to raids is being handed out to other classes as well, it just seems people are trying to talk up VE to be our strong suit in order to try and feel 'needed', and to me that's just ridiculous.

Honestly, even with the VT nerf, we'll still be in groups for the simple mana regen first, sub-par DPS second, and our ability to provide added healing and other minuscule utilities dead last. And regardless of the amount we can heal with VE, it's going to get overlooked. People will start to sub out SPs and their sub-par DPS for a class that can bring the same style of mana regen, even better DPS, and more utility than we can provide.

It's one thing to admit that SP's still need a bit more tuning, and another to over-praise a secondary ability to naively ignore the problem at hand, and I really hope the current SPs out there can realize that we're in a bad spot.

[Angerz]

Originally Posted by Horse

COH is only 15 from target, what's chain? Either way, you'd probably just assign COH to various areas and that's that.

Is wild growth really that bad on top of the other druid buffs?

And I think you'd throw in at least 1 discipline priest, no more holy priest needing to bitch up to spirit as well as the various shield benefits and damage reductions.

One thing to remember is that they buffed the fuck out of holy to the point that priests' will be screwed in a good way with only 61 talent points to spend. So they're not going to get all of the regen and all of the healing stuff.

Chain heal can jump 5 yards a bounce I think. It always seems like it goes farther than that, so I don't know when it makes the calculation.

[Xequecal]

Build 9014 - Paladin Holy massively nerfed, Regrowth nerfed, Regrowth glyphs nerfed.

All raid healers are now Holy Priests. Everything else is garbage.

[Kirun]

Originally Posted by Mageling

Fuck Blizzard for saying that shadow priests are just fine currently.

They did?

Seriously, people need to stop with the doom and gloom shit.

[Zhaun's_Shade]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Build 9014 - Paladin Holy massively nerfed, Regrowth nerfed, Regrowth glyphs nerfed.

All raid healers are now Holy Priests. Everything else is garbage.

How so were Holy Paladin's nerfed, don't see anything in MMO Champion's notes?

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Zhaun's_Shade

How so were Holy Paladin's nerfed, don't see anything in MMO Champion's notes?

Divine Plea is now 25% mana over 15 seconds and you can't heal while it's active.

Infusion of Light doesn't give you instant HL anymore, only -1sec.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Asmadai

You make many valid points; I can agree with you on most of them. VE has always been 'handy'. As some people have suggested, VE is highly useful in Sunwell encounters (still debatable I say), and to your points of it coming in handy in certain pre-Sunwell raid encounters and 5 man groups I still say it's merely 'handy'.

However, it's not the 'strong utility' people are painting it out to be, imo. I see it as more of a 'bonus' than anything else though. Tell me, when was the last time you heard "Hey, bring that SP along - their group health regen is the shit!" or "I love having me a SP in my group for them heals!" We aren't referred to as 'Mana-Batteries' because we regen Health. VE is not our 'strong utility', VT is. Again, VE comes in handy in certain situations, but it's not what we are best known for. People realize the added heals they got from VE after the fact; hell, most people are generally suprised to see how much we CAN heal with the ability.

My point of points I was trying to make originally, is that people are seemingly over hyping VE now due to the VT nerf. Our ability to heal with VE has always been referred to as a secondary bonus - never was it talked about with much fervor prior to this VT nerf. Now that we know the unique mana regen we brought to raids is being handed out to other classes as well, it just seems people are trying to talk up VE to be our strong suit in order to try and feel 'needed', and to me that's just ridiculous.

Honestly, even with the VT nerf, we'll still be in groups for the simple mana regen first, sub-par DPS second, and our ability to provide added healing and other minuscule utilities dead last. And regardless of the amount we can heal with VE, it's going to get overlooked. People will start to sub out SPs and their sub-par DPS for a class that can bring the same style of mana regen, even better DPS, and more utility than we can provide.

It's one thing to admit that SP's still need a bit more tuning, and another to over-praise a secondary ability to naively ignore the problem at hand, and I really hope the current SPs out there can realize that we're in a bad spot.

It's not fun, and its not utility enough to base needing a shadow priest or anything.

Our "utility" is VE. It's not amazing and I can't see anyone validating shadow for it. It's handy at best, as you've said.

They seem to have forgotten that VT was THE reason to bring shadow priests. Before VT - when you had 40 man space - you just brought along a shadow priest because someone, somewhere wanted to be one and VE was charming. VE made casuals crap their diapers less on nef! Silence was OK for cthun! Blackout quite all right on vashj! There was a point where VT was "i'm too lazy to use pots" depending on where you were in progression.

If they don't bring the damage in line, there's no way I'd bother with shadow on raids in general. Of course, the flipside is if there are more like sunwell there's a niche. I'd also probably prefer surv hunters over mind sear shadow in general for their flexibility of utility while doing fucktons more dps.

It's all a balancing act and 3.0 is going to be priestgasm when it goes live if everything stays as is. Past that? Optional at best.

Originally Posted by Kirun

They did?

Seriously, people need to stop with the doom and gloom shit.

Again, the buffs would have to be quite large at this point for it to make up any difference. So far we've only seen downward adjusting from the original place, which was deemed "too much dps."

So if you take how the version of us that was claimed to be too much dps and compare it to other classes, someone is being rather delusional in terms of where things were stacking up. I think part of the problem was that shadow priests had the least amount of mana issues and our damage was high compared to those being handcuffed by mana. Those classes got DPS buffs, in general, while we've only seen our initial dps point lowered relatively.

That said, what do you think they'll tweak / raise to up our dps? Or is it going to be mostly other classes being lowered?

[Genjiro]

Warriors will be able to use berserker rage in all stances.

[madmaan]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Divine Plea is now 25% mana over 15 seconds and you can't heal while it's active.

Infusion of Light doesn't give you instant HL anymore, only -1sec.

wow.... i just can't even begin. Is there any reason for holy?

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by madmaan

wow.... i just can't even begin. Is there any reason for holy?

There's no reason for any healer except Holy Priests. This isn't even just a minor difference, similar to a raid with less than 5 Shaman in TBC, your Wrath raid is utterly gimped unless you literally bring all Holy Priest healers.

[James]

Battle Shout attack power increase has been lowered from 550 to 548.

Those motherfuckers...

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

There's no reason for any healer except Holy Priests. This isn't even just a minor difference, similar to a raid with less than 5 Shaman in TBC, your Wrath raid is utterly gimped unless you literally bring all Holy Priest healers.

Don't worry guys, it's only beta.

Right....right...?

[James]

What they still have at least 6 months to patch it once it goes live.