[WoW] WotLK - Beta Patch Notes

[Draegan]

That shit looks complicated (Seals/Judgements)

[rangoth]

Did anyone notice that sunder armor threat will scale with attack power? It seems like warriors will switch to a far more AP style gearing...and with the change to anticipation I am wondering about how the new gear will look.

Also, what are people's ideas for builds? I played around and it seemed like I could get the deflection+tc build + most important protection ones. However it also appears that I have to decide between non-raid and raid tanking, which kinda stinks since they mostly overlap now.

Shit even the disarm talent seems kinda worth it depending on what can be disarmed, 10% extra dmg...from everyone? Awesome.

[Murr]

Honestly easiest fix I can see for daggers is twofold:

1) Make dagger specialization better
2) Move opportunity into 1st row combat OR put in a half decent dagger talent in 1st row combat so you don't have combat dagger rogues burning points on Improved SS and Improved Gouge for PVE.

If dagger rogues didn't have to burn 5 points in the PVP tree just to get Opportunity and could grab it from Combat instead, you open up two nice avenues for PVE:
1) Mutilate spec daggers can get DWS and dagger spec in combat (45/21).
2) Combat daggers can get improved poisons in assassination like swords (19/51)

So much dejavu to the rogue review when opportunity was fucking dagger builds and just got moved up a row.

[Agraza]

Originally Posted by rangoth

Did anyone notice that sunder armor threat will scale with attack power? It seems like warriors will switch to a far more AP style gearing...and with the change to anticipation I am wondering about how the new gear will look.

Also, what are people's ideas for builds? I played around and it seemed like I could get the deflection+tc build + most important protection ones. However it also appears that I have to decide between non-raid and raid tanking, which kinda stinks since they mostly overlap now.

Shit even the disarm talent seems kinda worth it depending on what can be disarmed, 10% extra dmg...from everyone? Awesome.

Yea, if they actually let us disarm shit. This reminds me of spell reflect. So much potential, so little implementation.

I doubt prot wars will make an effort to stack STR for AP scaling. There is some benefit there for off-spec wars. Fury and Arms will deliver far more threat. STA is still worth too much to socket anything else for tanking, and there isn't that much gear at any one tier of progression to distinguish STR/block and AGI/dodge. If they made socket bonuses worthwhile maybe there could be multiple strategies.

Furthermore, item budgets are kind to multiple stat additions, and high echelon purples will reflect that in lots of STR and AGI. As usual, there is less choice than it would seem. The scaling is only relevant to improve the threat of the off-spec and raiding warriors as DPS rockets into space.

[Wombat]

That combo Seal/Justice system just seems retarded. X+Y = Z unless Y was J, then Q, unless X also P, then still Z. What?

Either a) Keep it the old way, that the Judgement depends on the Seal active at the time (but optionally not have the Seals fade), or, preferably,

b) Entirely break the connection between Seals and Judgements. There are just 3 Judgement spells (Light, Wisdom, Justice) that each apply their own debuff. You don't even need to have a Seal running for the Judgement to be applied because they are no longer related in any way - each paladin can have one Seal up on their character and one Judgement applied to a mob. Seals and Judgements last forever - but since a DD is applied every time you use a Judgement, you do more damage the more mana you use.

The problem with my b) scenario is how you would scale Judgement damage between AP and SP (spellpower). Ideally it would take both into account, but failing that, I would say Light & Wisdom scale with SP and Justice with AP.

Of course, in both my system and their terribly complicated system, there can only be a max 3 Judgement debuffs applied to a target at once, yes? You could easily have more than 3 pallies on a raid, even in a 10 man (tank, dps, and 2 healers) - how happy will people be when pally 4+ can't debuff anymore? Hell, is Pally 4 even able to Judge (the damage portion) if all the types are up already?

And for that matter, if there are only 3 possible paladin debuffs on a mob, won't Heart of the Crusader (Ret tier 2 - add 3% crit chance to the debuffed mob) be required for every pally Judging?

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Murr

Honestly easiest fix I can see for daggers is twofold:

1) Make dagger specialization better
2) Move opportunity into 1st row combat OR put in a half decent dagger talent in 1st row combat so you don't have combat dagger rogues burning points on Improved SS and Improved Gouge for PVE.

If dagger rogues didn't have to burn 5 points in the PVP tree just to get Opportunity and could grab it from Combat instead, you open up two nice avenues for PVE:
1) Mutilate spec daggers can get DWS and dagger spec in combat (45/21).
2) Combat daggers can get improved poisons in assassination like swords (19/51)

So much dejavu to the rogue review when opportunity was fucking dagger builds and just got moved up a row.

No reason not to just make Opportunity innate. It's not like any non-dagger rogue EVER swaps in a dagger to ambush/bs, so it's not hurting anything and there's no reason to demand daggers spend another 5 points than any other weapon type. Perhaps also lower energy cost of BS or make it otherwise combo-point friendly.

But you're basically wasting your breath. I may bitch about combat daggers alot but I have no serious thoughts of blizzard ever making it strong again. ShS is going to become irreplaceable for pvp and WF/sword spec are going to make sword passives far better than daggers short of a major overhaul to dagger spec talent. How about:

Dagger Specialization:
Increases your critical strike chance with normal damaging attacks and with your Backstab ability by 1/2/3/4/5%, increases the critical strike chance of your Mutilate ability by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5%, and whenever you perform an extra attack with a dagger from any source that provides you with an extra attack, that attack does 20/40/60/80/100% more damage.

[Edit]: New judge system looks ridiculous from what little they just showed. A paladin with a 1h judging justice for nearly 2k fucking damage? What? Is 2k the new 200? It's a fucking healing class. I really don't understand Blizzard sometimes.

[Alamando]

Originally Posted by Makata

[Edit]: New judge system looks ridiculous from what little they just showed. A paladin with a 1h judging justice for nearly 2k fucking damage? What? Is 2k the new 200? It's a fucking healing class. I really don't understand Blizzard sometimes.

Oh, Christ. Someone start a new Beta thread, this one is over.

[Mageling]

Originally Posted by Makata

[Edit]: New judge system looks ridiculous from what little they just showed. A paladin with a 1h judging justice for nearly 2k fucking damage? What? Is 2k the new 200? It's a fucking healing class. I really don't understand Blizzard sometimes.

I hear beta is where they test things before they go live to the paying customers.

[Deathwing]

We fucking warned you Murr.

[Murr]

Originally Posted by Deathwing

We fucking warned you Murr.

i'm sorry

[Alamando]

Originally Posted by Draegan

That shit looks complicated (Seals/Judgements)

I do not think it will be as bad as it looks. The author of that summary just used an extra letter. As I understand it...

-Each Seal will have a specific effect when Judged. This effect will happen, regardless of which Judgement is used.
-Each Judgement leaves a specific debuff on the target. This debuff will occur, regardless of which Seal the paladin is using right now.

[Agraza]

More actions on my hotbar is bad. I hope they settle on something that lets us continue just using one judge button.

[Fadaar]

Originally Posted by Deathwing

We fucking warned you Murr.

Sir I do believe your avatar says it all.

[Alamando]

Originally Posted by Agraza

More actions on my hotbar is bad. I hope they settle on something that lets us continue just using one judge button.

One of the biggest complaints against (and biggest attacks on) Paladins is that they are a two-button class. Holy has its two heals, lol @ Holy Shock. Prot is arguably up to 4 buttons, Holy Shield/Consecrate/Judge/Seal. Ret is probably CS/Judge/Seal?

Hopefully these changes add a bit more versatility in the system. If the rewards of this new system are more influential effects, that seems fine. And in the end, I'd guess that 90% of the time you'll still use Seal A and Judgement B and the rest can be off to the side.

[Ravensign]

Originally Posted by Alamando

I do not think it will be as bad as it looks. The author of that summary just used an extra letter. As I understand it...

-Each Seal will have a specific effect when Judged. This effect will happen, regardless of which Judgement is used.
-Each Judgement leaves a specific debuff on the target. This debuff will occur, regardless of which Seal the paladin is using right now.

I think its complicated to theorycraft, but not as complicated to use. I think most people will be using one seal in most situations, Martyr/Blood in PVE, SoC and maybe SoJ in PVP, and one judgment depending on what they need at the time: life, damage or mana, and the numbers will just fall where they may.

Personally, I would like to see Seals not time out after 30 seconds. Put up the seal you want and leave it, judging as you go.