[WoW] Panel @WWI

[Kreugen]

I think I mentioned this already, but I did a 3 hour botanica normal - and this after skipping the Satyr boss. Imagine this conversation:

"tank him away from the platform because his AE will kill the sacrificed person"
attempt 1 - tanked on platform
"okay this time, take him away from the platfrom because his AE killed the sacrificed person"
attempt 2 - tanked on platform
"You know, this guy is skippable.."

So, yeah, WoW dungeons are plenty hard for the drooling fucking retards of the world.

Plus, keep in mind the Heroics of today are a pale shadow of what they were originally. First off you had sweeping strikes on goddamn everything, which assfucked melee dps from the start. And there must have been a hundred other nerfs since, and never mind the massive mudinflation from item tweaks and welfare epics. And the rewards for the difficulty was a far cry from being fair.

So with that in mind, I'd guess the heroics in wolk will be closer to what we have now. Much like the entry level raids will be more like Gruul 7.0 than random PITA Gruul 1.0 and No Fucking Way You Are Pugging This Magtheridon 1 and 2.

[Grizzlebeard]

So achievable for drooling fucktards and piss easy for anyone with half a brain. Something to really look forward to there then!

[Modo Icecrown]

Plus, keep in mind the Heroics of today are a pale shadow of what they were originally

I don't think anyone is suggesting we make heroics as assrape as they were at the start of the expansion. You shouldn't have to stack a group to complete one.

We've all done groups where random pub 214 can't figure out how to avoid the void stone, can't dps to save their life, and doesn't know what kind of loot they should roll on. They shouldn't make heroics easier for them - but they need a clear loot transition so that you can weed out the people who can't figure out normal instances that try and get in your group for heroics.

[Lenaldo]

Originally Posted by Modo Icecrown

I don't think anyone is suggesting we make heroics as assrape as they were at the start of the expansion. You shouldn't have to stack a group to complete one.

We've all done groups where random pub 214 can't figure out how to avoid the void stone, can't dps to save their life, and doesn't know what kind of loot they should roll on. They shouldn't make heroics easier for them - but they need a clear loot transition so that you can weed out the people who can't figure out normal instances that try and get in your group for heroics.

I'd like to see dps checks, healing checks, and tanking checks in heroics... Instead of cc-check which is all they are in TBC. Tune them to people who have full non-heroic gear(for the most part). This way dumb-ass-rogue-01 who uses sinister strike with daggers can finally realize hes doing it wrong.

[spronk]

i thought it'd always be great if, as group leader, you could port your group to a special "test your group" instance that just split up into 5 hallways, 1 for healer, 1 for tank, and 3 for dps. Each person has to go through the 5 minute hallway and emerge alive, and in Indiana Jones fashion they have to survive solo the trials against their archetype.

hell expand it into daily solo instances so you can run through a 30-45 minute solo instance, and there are multiple versions for different roles (tank, hybrid, DPS, heal, etc). Get people "trained" to be better at their class.

[Mythas]

Or they could l2 play somewhere along the line from 1 to 80???

If they suck boot them. End of story. Especially easy if its the dps that sucks there are tons more people to chose from.

[The Ancient]

Enough of the fights are changed that you can't say it was just more HP and Damage for all the bosses. Some things like the boss of Blood Furnace were changed in a way that is completely negligible like pulling people in before exploding and some were changed in a way that seems simple but actually changes the mechanics of the fight like Extra elements for the girl in Mech and some were just outright altered like the Robot in Mech.

Some weren't changed at all though and were consequently easier than their non-Heroic counterparts like that Slave Pens crab. So yeah, there was some laziness going on, but it wasn't across the board.

[Wilfan]

The only problem with TBC heroics is that in 99% trash became much harder than boss compared to the normal version. Mentioned "CC checks" are for trash - there's maybe 5 CC bossfights in total across all heroics (all that I can remember is Calculator and Delrissa).

[Zehn - Vhex]

There have been some changes to bosses, most of them inconsequential. The biggest changes came from not being able to burn bosses fast enough to cheese their scripts.

Out of the 10 bosses in hellfire, only 2 gain new abilities, both largely inconsequential. Coifang 10 bosses, only notable change is the adds on black stalker. Auchindoun's biggest change is 2 optional bosses available in heroic modes only. Tempest Keep only notable changes are in mechenaar and even then the first boss is the only one that actually changes the scope of the fight. Caverns of Time no changes of note.

So really, out of the 30 something bosses in TBC, maybe 5 or 6 gain anything really new. And you only have to change your strategy for 1 or 2 of them.

The trash is largely unchanged though. Again, just hits 10x harder and has more health.

So yeah, it is a pretty safe blanket statement. They could have done a lot more with it. My point still stands. I would rather the fights have been made more challenging by adding new things you have to deal with. For the most part, that didn't happen.

[TheYanger]

Don't have time to go over every single boss before class, but just because they're not still hard doesn't mean they're not changed.
Saying OHB doesn't have any is crazy, the second boss is significantly harder, and this was the original ASSRAPE heroic due to how the scout system worked, the zone felt very different.

[Zehn - Vhex]

The only thing that changed was he got a 600 dmg/second consecrate which you can move out of.

[TheYanger]

Which is a pretty significant change vs a tank and spank boss on normal, at the appropriate gear level that consecrate is no joke, sort of like when Hex Lord does it. Like I said, just because YOU don't consider it different doesn't mean it's not different.
Personally, your little ideas for totally new encounters is neat and all but I'd rather they save those for new zones than waste them on heroics.

[Modo Icecrown]

Giving a boss a high damage consecrate is not a significant change.

[Thengel]

One fight that stuck out on heroic that hasn't been mentioned here is Murmur. That fight had several new mechanics and was substantially more difficult on heroic. Granted, he still wasn't as difficult as the buggy as hell hallway that preceeded him.

What I see right now is people completely not doing the normal instances at all. You want to gimp your way into a heroic instance, get badges, and turn them in for your T6 equivalent. I realize this won't change.

I'd like to see more of a gradient at least. A good compromise would be - make the level 70 normal instances drop badges. Make the level 60-68 heroic instances more difficult, and drop badges and slightly better loot. Make the level 70 heroic instances actually difficult and drop more badges.

For anyone that has done any raiding whatsoever, there is no difficult in 'heroic' instances. The most difficulty is outside the instance, forming a not retarded group.

And FFS, give me heroic old world instances. You've got the mechanic, use it! I want to do heroic UBRS, Razorfen Downs. I'd even sneak into Stormwince and do heroic Stockades (once, and only once)

[Zehn - Vhex]

I'd rather they have added a new point system. Too much shit taking up inventory space as is.