[WoW] 2.4.3 Patch Notes

[Zehn - Vhex]

That's why the bubble needs to be redesigned. Right now we're balanced completely around it being up. If you made paladins as OP as priests/druids and threw in 12 seconds of immunity on top of it, it would just be ridiculous.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Incognitogamer

Druids are EASILY the most annoying/hardest to kill PVP healing class. Paladins/shamans/priests can't even hold a candle to the ridiculousness that is druid pvp healing.

In 2v2, yeah. In 5v5 Druids can't put out enough healing to save anyone from the train. 5v5 revolves around Priests 100%, classes are evaluated by their ability to kill Priests or support Priests.

[Incognitogamer]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

That's why the bubble needs to be redesigned. Right now we're balanced completely around it being up. If you made paladins as OP as priests/druids and threw in 12 seconds of immunity on top of it, it would just be ridiculous.

Just thinking about how little paladins got in the healing/support department since TBC was released pains me. Not only have we been given nothing, but everything that WAS good or decent pre-TBC has been nerfed.

Priests got PoM, CoH*, and Pain Suppression*. Shamans got Chain Heal and Earth Shield*. Druids got Tree form* (boosts all heals while simultaneously reducing their mana cost, broken as all hell imho), and lifebloom.

Paladins got dick. Divine Illumination pales GREATLY in comparison to the abilities that the other healing classes were given. Seems Blizzard was only focused on proving Paladins could be viable tanks in TBC.

*if they have the talent.

[Xequecal]

From Blizzard's perspective I can see why they think Paladins are balanced. I highly doubt they predicted that raids would buffbot 30-min buffs. If they take the ability to bot Paladin buffs out Paladins end up close to balanced. Sure, it's boring as fuck to play as Holy, but power wise it is balanced. Salvation, Kings, and Might/Wis means they merit three spots minimum even with crappy heals, which is already ahead of the class curve for a 25-man. (2.77 of each class if it's perfectly balanced.)

[mek]

Holy pallies are without a doubt one of the most neglected specs of TBC; similar to affliction, they did well early expansion at low levels of gear, and as a result were utterly ignored by future patches. I played resto druid and resto shaman and it's fucking obvious how bad holy pallies have it. They went from great in blue gear in 2.0 thanks to pre-nerf illumination to absolutely terrible, the only reason a holy paladin gets in a raid these days is because you want a third blessing. They need some HUGE buffs to make them competitive in WotLK, and I look forward to seeing their leaked talent tree. (Speaking mostly PvEwise)

edit: on the other hand, if ret + prot become the major pally specs, with holy a niche spec, won't that be exactly what the "holy warrior" whiners from retail day 1 wanted, finally achieved?

[brekk]

Originally Posted by mek

edit: on the other hand, if ret + prot become the major pally specs, with holy a niche spec, won't that be exactly what the "holy warrior" whiners from retail day 1 wanted, finally achieved?

No, because they got spoiled by being the super healer of early TBC. They changed their minds and decided its fun to be the absolute best even if its healing.

[Incognitogamer]

Originally Posted by brekk

No, because they got spoiled by being the super healer of early TBC. They changed their minds and decided its fun to be the absolute best even if its healing.

I'm not even asking for absolute best. At this point I would except "approaching even" to the other healers. Paladins need a hot or at the bare minimum some sort of group heal to be comparable at all in healing to the other healers come WOTLK.

[Littles]

Originally Posted by Incognitogamer

Just thinking about how little paladins got in the healing/support department since TBC was released pains me. Not only have we been given nothing, but everything that WAS good or decent pre-TBC has been nerfed.

Priests got PoM, CoH*, and Pain Suppression*. Shamans got Chain Heal and Earth Shield*. Druids got Tree form* (boosts all heals while simultaneously reducing their mana cost, broken as all hell imho), and lifebloom.

Paladins got dick. Divine Illumination pales GREATLY in comparison to the abilities that the other healing classes were given. Seems Blizzard was only focused on proving Paladins could be viable tanks in TBC.

*if they have the talent.

Treeform boosts heals? For one group, explain how that is broken.

[kaid]

Paladins really could use some kind of rejuve type power or some instant cast heal over time type spell and maybe some kind of aoe heal. So many of the new boss fights I have been seeing seem to be much less of a one main tank who needs healed than everybody is getting wacked for damage and thats really hard for a holy paladin to keep up with.

[Kuriin]

I do wish pallies would get some kind of healing buff...either a group heal or a HoT.

What was Divine Illumination like before the nerf? I just started playing a pally back in May.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Only a matter of time before someone mentions healsecrate. So let's get that over with. As guilty as I am of tooting my own substantial horn (and it is massive) let's move on and save the speculation for the rapidly defuncting WOTLK alpha thread.

Though there isn't much to move on to I suppose. Other then the rogue nerf, mount change and new bags there's what...taunt now works on stunned mobs? Yay for that I suppose but...

Fuck it, let's speculate about healsecrate!

Edit: Prior to the nerf, illumination returned 100% mana so every 1% of crit was equal to 1% less mana cost on holy light. Between that and chain heal becomming ridiculous meant people were at nearly full health most of the time pretty much destroyed the use for holy light on anything but MT healing.

[The Ancient]

Given how mobile most Raid encounters seem to be nowadays, I really doubt you'll see a lot of use for healsecrate. It either amounts to something like Lightwell or Holy Nova, both of which stink.

Asking DPS classes to pay attention to the location of their healers is a laughable request.

[Ancalagon]

As someone who's played a holy Paladin since release, and who -- to the extent that he can bring himself to log on at all -- now PVPs exclusively, I'll just second (or third, or fourth) what a majorly fucked class I play. My suggestion for 'fixing' the Holy Paladin: Remove Divine Shield and replace it with a BOP-equivalent for magic spells and effects; give every Paladin repentance; increase the power of judgments -- I'm thinking light in particular -- such that judging your melee partner's target with light is not only worthwhile, but such that it might actually impact a game if left up. I think this shield change would make Paladins a great deal easier to balance; universal Repentance would make Paladins more than sheer heal bots (Druids cyclone, Priests mana burn, Shamans earth shock -- I don't think I'm suggesting too much); and likewise with enhanced Judgments.

Or things can just keep proceeding apace.

[Kuriin]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Given how mobile most Raid encounters seem to be nowadays, I really doubt you'll see a lot of use for healsecrate. It either amounts to something like Lightwell or Holy Nova, both of which stink.

Asking DPS classes to pay attention to the location of their healers is a laughable request.

The thing that you're forgetting is, Holy Nova was actually used as a strat on Vael back in the day. But, you're right that it is somewhat useless these days, lol.

[Neph]

Originally Posted by Ancalagon

As someone who's played a holy Paladin since release, and who -- to the extent that he can bring himself to log on at all -- now PVPs exclusively, I'll just second (or third, or fourth) what a majorly fucked class I play. My suggestion for 'fixing' the Holy Paladin: Remove Divine Shield and replace it with a BOP-equivalent for magic spells and effects; give every Paladin repentance; increase the power of judgments -- I'm thinking light in particular -- such that judging your melee partner's target with light is not only worthwhile, but such that it might actually impact a game if left up. I think this shield change would make Paladins a great deal easier to balance; universal Repentance would make Paladins more than sheer heal bots (Druids cyclone, Priests mana burn, Shamans earth shock -- I don't think I'm suggesting too much); and likewise with enhanced Judgments.

Or things can just keep proceeding apace.

Agreeing for the most part, but aren't Death Knights getting a targetable Magic Shell?