[WoW] 2.4.3 Patch Notes

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Antoine

except half the time when you're snared you get a skillful mace stun on your target so it's like you're not snared at all

Originally Posted by Makata

..snared more than your target out of melee range.

Reading ftw.

[Aria]

Spell reflect is awesome and I totally pwn mages with it. Except for the fact that a lot of mages aren't retarded, that is.

[Saban]

I firmly believe that wound poison needs to be taken away from rogues.

[Diatribe]

Originally Posted by Saban

I firmly believe that wound poison needs to be taken away from rogues.

I firmly believe the Rogue talent trees need completely overhauled:

Combat: Nothing fancy at all. It's all straight up offense with very little defense. All about who dies 1st? You or me?

Subtlety: (aka the stunlock rogues) It's all about locking your opponent down, your damage output kinda sucks & it takes you awhile to pvp someone down, but damn, if you're Subtlety specced & get the jump on them, they're fucked.

Assassination: Masters of Poisons and massive burst damage. Much of their damage from surprise attacks (aka stealthed). The shorter the fight, the better. But if the fight is anything but short, their weaknesses begin to grow.

[Morannon]

I'm inclined to agree, Diatribe. They're growing more and more centered around cooldowns which just creates a host of problems. As for wounding poison being removed, I'm of the belief that healing numbers have gotten out of whack with damage output numbers, and something needs to be in there to compensate. I'm more inclined to say revisiting the value of +heal vs damage boosts on gear, but barring that, elements like wound poison, mortal strike are necessary, for better or worse.

[Cad]

Originally Posted by Morannon

I'm inclined to agree, Diatribe. They're growing more and more centered around cooldowns which just creates a host of problems. As for wounding poison being removed, I'm of the belief that healing numbers have gotten out of whack with damage output numbers, and something needs to be in there to compensate. I'm more inclined to say revisiting the value of +heal vs damage boosts on gear, but barring that, elements like wound poison, mortal strike are necessary, for better or worse.

If MS and wound poison are necessary, what do mages, warlocks, and hunters who can't get aimed shot off do?

Is this patch being released today?

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Cad

If MS and wound poison are necessary, what do mages, warlocks, and hunters who can't get aimed shot off do?

To me the solution is rather simple. Institute a game-wide rule that lowers all healing in all battlegrounds, all arenas, and in all open-world pvp (with some reasonable restriction so as to not hurt solo/pve) by 30%. Then rework the -healing abilities as follows:
* Mortal Strike: Base 10% healing reduction (40% total) and improved MS bumps it to 20% (50% total) and thus actually gives people a reason to ever take that talent. It still does a ton of damage and is still another 10% less healing so QQ's are basically unwarranted.
* Wound Poison: 10% decution (40% total) on the first stack, additional stacks don't increase the reduction BUT initial damage from the poison itself is increased based on number of stacks on the target to surpass instant (by a small amount) at the 5 stack level.
* Aimed Shot: Lower cast time to current (and thus hasted) weapon speed, bump cooldown to a flat 10 seconds, but no longer provides any additional healing reduction because fuck hunters and their 18 seconds of cc immunity.

Originally Posted by Diatribe

I firmly believe the Rogue talent trees need completely overhauled:

Combat: Nothing fancy at all. It's all straight up offense with very little defense. All about who dies 1st? You or me?

No. This is the pve tree. The tree has more points in in-combat passive talents (32, and that's only 1 weapon spec) than the other 2 and most of the ones from the other trees are more about burst than sustained (see: imp kidney shot, find weakness, dirty deeds). The fact they are putting some pvp talents at the end of this tree for wrath has got to be about the dumbest thing they could possibly do for pve rogues. They specifically said they're looking into letting people switch specs between pve and pvp anyway, so this is pointless. No pvp rogue is going to want to go 50 deep into the worst tree for 2 talents and a pve rogue cant go past 41 in the tree anyway. Utterly stupid.

Subtlety: (aka the stunlock rogues) It's all about locking your opponent down, your damage output kinda sucks & it takes you awhile to pvp someone down, but damn, if you're Subtlety specced & get the jump on them, they're fucked.

Close but this is the pvp/mobility/survivability tree. Hint: Shadowstep wasn't made for pve. Plus, why would you mention this as the "stunlock" tree when the only talent in the game which impacts kidney shot is in assassination?

Assassination: Masters of Poisons and massive burst damage. Much of their damage from surprise attacks (aka stealthed). The shorter the fight, the better. But if the fight is anything but short, their weaknesses begin to grow.

You're going to need to have a word with subtlety if you want the stealthy aspect, seeing as it has 8 talents that partially or wholly deal with stealth whereas assassination has none. Plus, Stealth the ability is a subtlety ability and frankly the entire original point of the tree before the 1.X overhaul. Burst damage: sure, but that's really only due to seal fate and cb. Poisons: okay but there was no where else to stick these talents and its a very minor part of the class.

The trees don't need any overhaul except to, if anything, streamline them further. Combat is your pve tree, subtlety is the pvp tree, and assassination is the flavor and/or the "i like daggers but 1 yellow number every 6 seconds is just not fast paced enough for me" tree. While we're on the subject, a heart-felt fuck you to blizzard for giving assassination mutilate and subtlety -15 energy to backstab, but not giving combat 1 fucking thing to make combat daggers worthwhile. Fuck. You.

[Kais[]]

If i'm not mistaken, Blizz announced at WWI that dagger specs are going to get some love in WotLK, though nothing other than that short blurb has been mentioned.

[Druixx]

So did this patch go live today? Anyone?

[Talos]

It did not

[LadyVex]

They just need separate rulesets, end of story. It would end the headache of balancing gear/talents/spells etc because it is OP in pvp but fine in pve.

They are dragging their feet however on this one.

[The Ancient]

Assasination should be a better damage tree for low to mid geared characters highly based around Rogue poisons and Combat should be the Raid damage tree. Melee Daggers shouldn't drop in Raids.

Done.

[Mythas]

Why should that happen at all? Why should you switch play styles / weapon pref via progression.

Oh fuck guys we hit t8 time to respec combat.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Mythas

Why should that happen at all? Why should you switch play styles / weapon pref via progression.

Oh fuck guys we hit t8 time to respec combat.

Thats what happens though with spreadsheet combat. When you get everything down to numbers, percents and cycles different specs scale and thresholds are crossed at different points. When you get enough Y spec 1 outperforms spec 2 but not until Y is reached.

[Mythas]

Im fairly sure at no point in progression at least in tbc do daggers out perform combat swords at any point.

For mages Fire is almost always universally better with the exception of a group being built around you as arcane.

Locks if you actually get in a caster dps group destro outperforms aff.

I realise things become more optimal at xstat level which forces you to alter rotations and what not. I don't believe there should be a "forced" mechanic though. "Well daggers are only good till tier x after that swords are just plain better."