Talent builder for WotLK alpha

[Goofy]

I dun care what spec i have to go as long as there is a reason to use daggers again.

If mutilate is wtf awesome for raiding i would go back to it but it isn't and swords is still the way to go.

I'm just sad that daggers are overlooked by so many rogues just because of how much disadvantage they bring.

Soloing? Spam sinister strike.
Raiding? Spam sinister strike.
PVP? Spam sinister strike.

Seriously where does the skills that are iconic to the rogue class come in?

You are seriously dillusional if you don't think the devs have not overlooked daggers in the grand scheme of the rogue class.

[Mist]

I think Mutilate should have some kind of debuff that helps the raid. Honestly, just giving it the same debuff that hemo has would work fine for me. But backstab is just a really boring ass skill to use.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Goofy

PVP? Spam sinister strike.

You mean spam Hemo, right?

WoW's location/direction netcode in PvP has never been good and I doubt we will ever see positionals be very useful for people with >60 or so ping.

[Nehrak]

So a little birdy (aka - websites devoted to the Wrath Alpha leaks) told me they're merging Curse of Shadow and Curse of the Elements into one spell. My main question is... why? To allow more uses of Curse of Agony? I'm honestly confused by this move, let alone the fact they haven't just slapped on Nature resist and called it a day to making Curse of Whatever a global resist debuff and spell damage buff.


Anyway, on the subject of talent trees, I decided to put my money where my mouth is, and came up with this. It took me a bit of time, but at least there aren't any janky talents like Improved Health Funnel floating around anymore (at least, the effect isn't by itself). :P

War Tools :: Talent tree Warlock Talent Revamp

(Yes, I'm attention whoring.)

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Makata

Which would mean giving up: Surprise Attacks, Combat Potency, AR, Weapon Expertise, and depending on what you wanted from sub possibly BF, DW spec and even Precision. I am not willing to give up any of these, nor should I have to. Using a dagger is not a spec unto itself. You should be able to focus your points into any tree and be able to use daggers.

And I should be able to focus my points into any tree and use giant 2 handed maces but that ain't fucking reality. Your spec ultimately defines what gear you're going to end up using.

There is no miracle way to balance swords, maces, fists and daggers without saying "fuck it" and getting rid of backstab/ambush and just making daggers another 2.8 weapon with a different animation. But even then you'd have to make sword and mace spec be +5% crit since swords would still generally parse higher. And then on top of that you'd need to spec swords anyways once you got glaives as there sure as shit isn't a dagger legendary. And don't dare fucking whine about that. Still waiting for my paladin tanking legendary.

Look, it's not like I don't understand where you're coming from, but there's pretty much no way to make daggers and swords equal. Not to mention maces and fist weapons which you're conveniently shoving out the fucking door. Though you'll probably come back with some retarded shit like, "Well it's your own damn fault for using fists. Way to not use weapons that the spec is designed around" with no sense of irony.

The best you can hope for is they make assassination a utility tree and a damn good one. Utility is the reason raids bring enhancement shaman and shadow priests and moonkin druids. It could work for dagger rogues too. Though they still haven't managed to make it work for retadins so good fucking luck with that anyways.

[Burkex]

Nehrak or anyone, did they ever make the Infernal or Doomwalker pets useful for warlocks? Or do they still suck and are still useless (Unless you want to kill people in the AH)? It would be nice to fix/tweak these pets a little. Make the Doomwalker a self summon. Allow locks to sacrifice these pets and get some benefits from them. Give them more damage and abils--They only last 5 minutes when enslaved and the recast time is an hour--they should be an uber get out of jail card like LOH, Ank, etc their CD is just as long, and they require reagents and quests to even unlock them. Just a thought since they are completely useless atm.

[Zest]

Throw an armor debuff proc into Puncturing Wounds and it's done.

[heel]

Originally Posted by Nehrak

So a little birdy (aka - websites devoted to the Wrath Alpha leaks) told me they're merging Curse of Shadow and Curse of the Elements into one spell. My main question is... why? To allow more uses of Curse of Agony? I'm honestly confused by this move, let alone the fact they haven't just slapped on Nature resist and called it a day to making Curse of Whatever a global resist debuff and spell damage buff.

Currently, you need three warlocks to optimize dps in a 25-man raid. This limits group composition options and generally makes mages an inferior class.

[Nehrak]

Originally Posted by Burkex

Nehrak or anyone, did they ever make the Infernal or Doomwalker pets useful for warlocks? Or do they still suck and are still useless (Unless you want to kill people in the AH)? It would be nice to fix/tweak these pets a little. Make the Doomwalker a self summon. Allow locks to sacrifice these pets and get some benefits from them. Give them more damage and abils--They only last 5 minutes when enslaved and the recast time is an hour--they should be an uber get out of jail card like LOH, Ank, etc their CD is just as long, and they require reagents and quests to even unlock them. Just a thought since they are completely useless atm.

They're still and arguably always have been gimmicks. I myself had the idea that they should turn Ritual of Doom into a spell that had you and the participants fight a boss-ish Doomguard and afterwards either it gives you a reagent so you can summon a Doomguard as a typical pet, or the Doomguard autopermaenslaves until you die. Hard to say.

The other idea was to just make Enslave Demon a permanent spell that periodically drains a Soul Shard from you.

Either way, it's still a farcry better than what we currently have as far as those go. :P But that's not forgetting the fact an Infernal doesn't even have non-passive abilities aside from BEAT FACE.

[Tongue]

Originally Posted by Nehrak

So a little birdy (aka - websites devoted to the Wrath Alpha leaks) told me they're merging Curse of Shadow and Curse of the Elements into one spell. My main question is... why? To allow more uses of Curse of Agony? I'm honestly confused by this move, let alone the fact they haven't just slapped on Nature resist and called it a day to making Curse of Whatever a global resist debuff and spell damage buff.


Anyway, on the subject of talent trees, I decided to put my money where my mouth is, and came up with this. It took me a bit of time, but at least there aren't any janky talents like Improved Health Funnel floating around anymore (at least, the effect isn't by itself). :P

War Tools :: Talent tree Warlock Talent Revamp



(Yes, I'm attention whoring.)

I don't know if I like this direction or not. It's great to get away from the 0/21/40 build but Destruction is totally catering to Fire based spells (Searing Flames, Engulfing Flames, Empowered Flame, Destruction Mastery 10% vs 5%) with a small nod to Shadow Bolt/Shadowburn. Most your going to get out of Shadow Bolt minus what you also get with fire is +20% Dmg from crit debuff and +5% to base DMG (yes I am not factoring in SP debuffs). I'm oversimplifying I know, but I haven't sat down and really thought this out .

Seems like now you need a Soulfrost weapon for Affliction/Demo build and Sunfire weapon for Destruction. Jeez.

Also, I'd be totally ok with them just trashing Infernal and Doomguard. They both suck ass after you enslave them because of the debuff and if you're specced for imp enslave then you most likely have Felguard with is 100x better than both of them combined.

[Goofy]

except there arn't rogue skills that specifically use hammers or fists.

[Munkeeboy]

So that statement about shaman staying by the class designer is definitely true. Elemental looks amazing.

Oh hi! You're in my face? THUNDER! And I look forward to trying out Lava Burst and Flametongue.

[Caocao]

Originally Posted by Munkeeboy

So that statement about shaman staying by the class designer is definitely true. Elemental looks amazing.

Oh hi! You're in my face? THUNDER! And I look forward to trying out Lava Burst and Flametongue.

The entire expansion has a more warcraft 3 feel to it this time around. I don't think any thing is going to stay the same, even with just 10 more talent points. I believe they're going for a more iconic style this time around. I honestly hope they take as long as they need to make the expansion as good as they want to make it, fuck all the whiners saying they need to pump shit out. They've always kept shit polished so they'll probably stick with it.

[Miele]

What's the dps difference between sword rogues and dagger rogues assuming warglaives are not entering the equation? Just curious.

Daggers are a bit of a controversy even in the father of all these games, which would be D&D. After so many editions, even in the last born, the 4th, daggers are an inferior weapon to other light blades such as a short sword. They get a small +hit bonus and do less damage, so it's not just WoW limiting them like that.

For what I can remember it was EQ1 limiting you to daggers in the main hand, maybe that's where this heritage comes from.

Maybe in WotlK we'll see legendary daggers and to be the best raid spec you'll have to be deep subtlety, who knows?

[Caocao]

Originally Posted by Miele

For what I can remember it was EQ1 limiting you to daggers in the main hand, maybe that's where this heritage comes from.

Maybe in WotlK we'll see legendary daggers and to be the best raid spec you'll have to be deep subtlety, who knows?

EQ you could have them in either, I dw blood points for awhile on my warrior. I really like this idea of being able to ambush 3 times in 9 seconds in combat if you haven't seen the ability from the wiki. Depending on the cool down, it could be quite amazing for rogues.