Talent builder for WotLK alpha

[The Ancient]

The sweet thing about the way they are introducing DKs is it should spread out players further during launch. I'd guess that about a third are going to go DK out of the gate and the rest are going to level their 70 character, reducing the number of people interfering with your questing.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Horse

The challenge of setting yourself apart from the pack only exists at launch.

Being one of the first at a high level, in raids, etc. has something going for it. Unfortunately it looks like priests are getting preened to be the anti-DK and that's what I play now so it'll be hard for me to jump on that bandwagon... I know a lot of people who play shadow priests simply because there was no dark/shadow knight. Wackadoo.

Hmm DK's seem to have a disease based focus also and shamans have anti disease spells and totems.

I'd say a priest or shaman is a good bet to level. The benefit to making a healing class is being wanted for every single instance run right out of the gate and having little to no competition for your gear. As a shaman only hunters wear mail so you can go back and run the lower level instances getting all the mail gear sets quickly as DK's start to hit 70 when your 75. Then since so many groups are running you'll hit exhalted pretty quickly with faction right off the bat.

Do that right off the bat and by the time everyone gets their DK's to 80 you'll have almost all the starting factions exhalted on rep plus thousands of gold from seling high end inscription mats for insane prices. hopefully finding early recpies that are common drops (but people dont know it yet) and seling them for 500-1000g on the AH.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Horse

The challenge of setting yourself apart from the pack only exists at launch.

Being one of the first at a high level, in raids, etc. has something going for it. Unfortunately it looks like priests are getting preened to be the anti-DK and that's what I play now so it'll be hard for me to jump on that bandwagon... I know a lot of people who play shadow priests simply because there was no dark/shadow knight. Wackadoo.

Yeah, it means every asshole who gets a plate drop with +healing on it will assume you want to pay him 30 gold for it.

At least that's my example from being the first BE paladin to 70. Vitae can back me up on this. I usually got about 3~8 tells an hour saying, "Hay, u want [feralfin plate greaves of the sorcrer]?? ill giv u for 20g."

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Yeah, it means every asshole who gets a plate drop with +healing on it will assume you want to pay him 30 gold for it.

At least that's my example from being the first BE paladin to 70. Vitae can back me up on this. I usually got about 3~8 tells an hour saying, "Hay, u want [feralfin plate greaves of the sorcrer]?? ill giv u for 20g."

Jesus christ those tells were so bad. I was the 4th BE Pally to 70 on Mal'Ganis and the entire time leveling up I got 10 tells a hour asking if I want to buy some shitty level 58 plate "of the whale" greens.

Dude BC has been live for 2 days and I'm level 40. I think my leveling plan doesn't need your scraps.

[Agraza]

Weird. I never got anything like that on my alliance shaman, ever. I can't define what category of stupid that falls into.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by GrobbeeTrull2.0

Your exceptions list is pretty long, and if you think they aren't the difference that sets apart Rogues and Ferals, you're out of your mind. Hey, did you forget dual weild too? What about Sap? Poisons?

Dual Wield is irrelevant for anything but caster pushback in pvp as it all is just one more variable in the dps equation. Same with damaging poisons and ferals get an innate crippling and thus are only missing wound. Sap < WotLK ensnaring roots when they make it indoor castable assuming there is at least 1 melee in the group you pull. Also in the group I mentioned, 4 of the 6 don't influence pve damage in the slightest and even some of these have some type of druid counterpart. The point is there shouldn't be just a handful of things rogues are actually better at. It should be the exception to the rule that druids are as good or better.

Ok seriously, what the FUCK? Your stupid office analogy fails, but I'll humor you. You get paid more, you get more benefits, you go home to the trophy wife, you drive the nicer car ..

Honestly, why are you lumping every advantage in the rogue's court when the druid versions of kidney shot, gouge, adrenaline rush, backstab, shadowstep, crippling poison (arguably), and possibly a few others are all better than the rogue counterparts?

Originally Posted by Plorkyeran

Why would you ever want a feral druid in your group if they're strictly inferior to a rogue?

Battle rez, innervate, motw, offtank, mid-combat CC (remember: roots is going to be castable indoors), emergency group heals (barkskin tranq is good even with 0 +heal), and COMPARABLE damage. Why would you ever want a rogue over a feral if he isn't the better choice in damage department considering druids have the entire rest of the class they bring with them?


I was mostly drunk venting the first time and I'm sure Blizzard will make some sort of effort to give me a reason to play a rogue; I just think it is fundamentally retarded to give ferals pretty much the 2 abilities that would always separate them from ferals and thus make them useful: AR and KS. And not only give them to ferals, but give them better versions. I honestly cannot see it making it live where druids get a fear immunity short term buff and rogues don't.

[Zehn - Vhex]

I would imagine it's pretty safe to say that if on the way to 80 druids become comparable to level 70 rogues, on the way to 80 rogues will get new gimics to pull themselves ahead once again.

You're effectively comparing a level 70 TBC druid to a level 60 pre-tbc rogue and going "HOLY FUCK OH GOD THEY GET MANGLE WHAT TEH FUCK IS THIS SHIT?"

DPS feral druids are terrible right now, at everything. There is no fucking point to them. If a feral druid app'd to our guild and we said, "How's your tanking gear" and he said, "What tanking gear?" I'd murder his parents.

This amps them up quite a bit. It's pretty safe to assume rogues aren't going to be left with nothing but their dick in there hands. Especially when rogues are Blizzards pet class right now. I'm sure they'll get some crazy shit like Kage Bunshin no Jutsu and then can shadow step at will behind any player.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

This amps them up quite a bit. It's pretty safe to assume rogues aren't going to be left with nothing but their dick in there hands. Especially when rogues are Blizzards pet class right now. I'm sure they'll get some crazy shit like Kage Bunshin no Jutsu and then can shadow step at will behind any player.

I'm aware of this. I'm aware feral dps isn't particularly stellar. I'm aware they could use more of a % dps gain from 70 to 80 than we could. That's not the point. The point is give them DIFFERENT things. They don't need kidney shot. They don't need adrenaline rush. They don't need shadow step. I'm not a dev, it's not my job to think up new shit, but there has got to be uncharted territory in the melee energy using department. The point is not to have an X level feral have everything an X-10 rogue has. They are different classes.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Well, that's what feral druids have pretty much always been. Rip was basically just a shitty version of deadly poison. Everything else is just a weaker version of rogue abilities.

They still don't have access to the two most used Rogue abilities though in PvE raiding. Kick/vanish. Well, and absurd fucking dps. These are largely pvp abilities they're gaining which deep ferals need.

Honestly, I'd like to see bear DPS upped slightly and cat just removed completely. The "2 talent tree's for the price of 1" thing is bullshit and we all know it.

[Antoine]

they don't have AR, they have a 60 energy gain once every 30 seconds, which pales in comparison to AR+combat potency in terms of energy return.

[Lenaldo]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Well, that's what feral druids have pretty much always been. Rip was basically just a shitty version of deadly poison. Everything else is just a weaker version of rogue abilities.

They still don't have access to the two most used Rogue abilities though in PvE raiding. Kick/vanish. Well, and absurd fucking dps. These are largely pvp abilities they're gaining which deep ferals need.

Honestly, I'd like to see bear DPS upped slightly and cat just removed completely. The "2 talent tree's for the price of 1" thing is bullshit and we all know it.

I'd also like to see a rogue battle rez and innervate... which are both very awesome raid utility items that rogues can not provide.

[Antoine]

no rogue has ever lost his spot to a dps feral druid

[Zbkuk]

Why am I not surprised that Makata is the only person on the planet who is feeling sorry for rogues right now. Standard.

[castarocks]

enough with the innervate crap - i am 3/6 sunwell and no one has needed a fucking innervate since Kara in 07. im the "ONE" token feral in the group and +5% crit is not a huge swaying factor at this point in the game.

I may concede battlerez - but most fights are LOL one person died - raid failed so even that is not to compelling.

MOTW LOL
Thorns ?
FFF?


Also, lets not even bring up the lawlferal druids that attempt to pvp or the shitty itemization.

Rogues cleanup in pvp and pve stop the nonsense here.

[GrobbeeTrull2.0]

Originally Posted by Makata

Dual Wield is irrelevant for anything but caster pushback in pvp as it all is just one more variable in the dps equation.

One more variable, that makes you do more damage than ferals and thus, are more desirable than ferals.

Same with damaging poisons and ferals get an innate crippling

Yes, innate crippling after spending 45 talent points. How many talent points do rogues have to spend?

and thus are only missing wound. Sap < WotLK ensnaring roots when they make it indoor castable assuming there is at least 1 melee in the group you pull.

If a feral roots, they are not pouncing/ravaging. Which a lot of lost damage and saved health for the tank.

Also in the group I mentioned, 4 of the 6 don't influence pve damage in the slightest and even some of these have some type of druid counterpart. The point is there shouldn't be just a handful of things rogues are actually better at. It should be the exception to the rule that druids are as good or better.

I think you're missing the point here: ferals have some abilities that are in your opinion better than rogues - yet when added up, ferals are still less desirable than rogues. What, exactly, is the problem?

Honestly, why are you lumping every advantage in the rogue's court when the druid versions of kidney shot, gouge, adrenaline rush, backstab, shadowstep, crippling poison (arguably), and possibly a few others are all better than the rogue counterparts?

Care to tell me what the druid counterpart to Gouge is? Oh, you mean the one we have to use from stealth? Do rogues have to use theirs from stealth? What's that, rogues can vanish to get back into stealth, and druids cannot unless they run away. Adrenaline Rush - 30 point talent versus 50 point talent. Yep. And you want yours to be better? Ohhhk.

Backstab versus Shred might be valid if any rogues actually used Backstab, whereas Druids only use Shred.

I'll give you Shadowstep, but since you're writing things off as PVP beneficial only, then that's where I'm throwing that one.

Battle rez, innervate, motw, offtank, mid-combat CC (remember: roots is going to be castable indoors), emergency group heals (barkskin tranq is good even with 0 +heal), and COMPARABLE damage.

If a feral druid is doing any of those things, they aren't doing comparable damage at all.

Why would you ever want a rogue over a feral if he isn't the better choice in damage department considering druids have the entire rest of the class they bring with them?

Uh, rogues still do way more damage than feral cats, so I'm not sure why you're angry. You don't even know what rogues are getting, but you're raging anyway. Jesus.

I was mostly drunk venting the first time and I'm sure Blizzard will make some sort of effort to give me a reason to play a rogue; I just think it is fundamentally retarded to give ferals pretty much the 2 abilities that would always separate them from ferals and thus make them useful: AR and KS. And not only give them to ferals, but give them better versions. I honestly cannot see it making it live where druids get a fear immunity short term buff and rogues don't.

Are you seriously playing it off as a drunken rant? Hey, what about Cloak of Shadows? What's that do, if you're bitching about removing fear.