AOC - General Discussion II

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Tananthalas

I had read an article that says it's not an expansion they are working on but a whole new MMO, being funded by the idiots who are paying for AoC subscription. I can try to find it if you're really interested.

They are working on a new MMO, but that's separate. They are also working on an AoC expansion, I believe the press release for it already came out?

[painbringer]

Originally Posted by Necrolyte

Calculate even the difference between PoM Healing vs ToS Healing.
PoMs can feat ~300 HP/nuke. What's the cast-time on the nuke? If I remember, it's 2.5s? So let's say a PoM is chain nuking. Now he's getting 300/2.5 = 120 extra HPS.
220 HP/S (ToS) / (220 + 120) (PoM) != 64.7%

Your math is shit.
About divine lanse, it must hit, it has 2.5s cast time and 2.5s recast time, making chaining it do half.
Sooo.. without feats and little effort a ToS does 79% the healing of a feated PoM standing still and chain casting.


A ToS can then pick up vital shock to get a 291 pts heal on demand.
- This is rarely done as it's easier to area root/puppet or just kill whomever is giving your target trouble.

If we add in using the big heals and vital shocks like a retard every time cooldowns are up, a ToS actually does 82% of the healing with a fraction of the casting time.


Lets look at the drawbacks for the PoM
A POM will be spending 2 seconds out of every 13 seconds refreshing the smallest of the HoT's since theirs lasts a lot shorter. (ToS is 17 seconds)
You could add the facts that PoM's have less mobility (from above) and that they can actually run out of mana.
You could, as mentioned, heal spec your ToS, but why would you, when you can do damage with the best of them as well as being close to a full blown healer?

On the bright side, a PoM can actually stand and cast - not because they don't get one shotted, but because they aren't a high priority target.
They can do some decent damage, if people decide to come hug them, but not at any range or while moving.


The important parts for pvp however, is burst healing for the "bob's getting hit" or "oooh shit" and the passive heals to top up.
In both cases ToS does fully as well as a PoM.


PS: Necrolyte I'm beginning to wonder, are you an aoc dev?

[Inconsiderable]

1) Painbringer: You make 79% sound bad. Actually it is fucking awesome for a PoM in a game based on HoTs like AoC
2) I was going to tell you all that you are full of shit and should neverever talk about class balance again, because ToS was fine in 6v6 PvP before the AE nerf and now is below average. Also many things you said were plain out wrong.
3) Then I realized you talk about raids and that I couldnt care less about raids.

[Stragi]

When does leveling a Barb stop sucking? 80?

[Barellron]

Originally Posted by Stragi

When does leveling a Barb stop sucking? 80?

There's this brief period from about 66-72 where being a DW Barb is awesome (mammoths in Atzel's). Otherwise it's balls no matter your spec.

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Stragi

When does leveling a Barb stop sucking? 80?

Again I have no idea about PvP, but PvE end game I'd suggest Barbarian is, by some way, the most useless class. Disappointing DPS and utility.

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by Flight

Again I have no idea about PvP, but PvE end game I'd suggest Barbarian is, by some way, the most useless class. Disappointing DPS and utility.

Really? Play a Dark Templar....

[Draegan]

or an assassin. Super small reach with daggers + necro pets getting in the way = I can't reach the raid boss!

[Seryne]

Assassins can put out top damage in a raid, and your necros will do more damage if they use DTS than pets; as an added bonus, it also gets rid of that annoying collision problem.

[Stragi]

Originally Posted by Barellron

There's this brief period from about 66-72 where being a DW Barb is awesome (mammoths in Atzel's). Otherwise it's balls no matter your spec.

I just started Thunder River last night and I have some quests to head over to Atzel's. Glad I have something to look forward to for a little bit. I should have stuck with ToS and had it easy.

[jayrebb]

I had not played in several weeks but was staying subscribed.

After seeing the ToS nerfs and how loud the drum beat has gotten for ToS nerfs, I have canceled my subscription.

It is not the fact that ToS is being nerfed that bothers me, but how its being done.

Not to mention most of the people here, including Flight, are really kidding themselves if they think ToS damage is that absurd. Maybe against your scrub newby characters that you dont know how to play.

In the real world, ToS know they are not overpowered. I can use a 30 minute cooldown and dump 2 full mana bars of damage and cooldowns into a heavy armor and they don't die. Assassins do something weird where they kill my ToS in 2 hits. I asked the assassin what the fuck spec is that and he wouldnt answer. Theres no way ToS is as overpowered as stated by these fanatics.

I think ToS has become the focus of nerd rage that AoC as a game just plain sucks. So you pick an entity to cast your grief on instead of the game itself. Id tell you to get off the bandwagon, but I know many of you are holding on for dear life.

Many more people will be following me out the door, as the nerf fanatics get everything they ever wanted.

[Tolanin]

pretty much every caster had their damage nerfed what are you crying about, the melee were getting shit on hugely in any of the fights bigger than 6v6

[jayrebb]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

pretty much every caster had their damage nerfed what are you crying about, the melee were getting shit on hugely in any of the fights bigger than 6v6

My problem is that EVERYTHING about ToS is being changed.

Not one fucking ability is going to be left unmolested. Puppets, storm crown, storm field (for the hundreth time), aoe in general, stacking cooldowns + damage calculations, etc.

No abilities will be left in tact. If you play a ToS just quit now, its not like AoC is a long term game anyway. Pack the bags.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by painbringer

Your math is shit.
About divine lanse, it must hit, it has 2.5s cast time and 2.5s recast time, making chaining it do half.
Sooo.. without feats and little effort a ToS does 79% the healing of a feated PoM standing still and chain casting.

I already said there was some guesswork involved because at the time I couldn't log in to check my POM.

79% is a big difference no?

A ToS can then pick up vital shock to get a 291 pts heal on demand.
- This is rarely done as it's easier to area root/puppet or just kill whomever is giving your target trouble.

So you can correct my POM math, then you present terrible math?

Vitalizing Shock has a 45s cool-down, and is NOT insta-cast either. It's 1.5-2.0s (forget which).

If we add in using the big heals and vital shocks like a retard every time cooldowns are up, a ToS actually does 82% of the healing with a fraction of the casting time.

How can you even compare a ~290 heal with a 45s cool-down to PoM's ~300 heal on 2.5s cool-down? How are ToS doing it in a fraction of the time?

You should at least check stats on ToS spells before commenting. Especially commenting about HoTs when they are almost exactly the same across the board.

Finally, I don't give a crap about PvE. Not going to comment on the rest, it doesn't make sense at all for PvP.

[Guzrog]

I'd have to agree on TOS, granted I quit playing mine when the first round of "changes" hit. Not really nerfs in my opinion, just changes. With the instant cast lightning strike alongside the AOE aspects of the spell being modified the class changed. Now, it feels more like a wow mage spamming blue fireballs from the sky with hots than a unique class.

I actually leveled to 45 not using active block/stormfield/stormcrown AOE with a lightning spec and had a blast juggling abilities etc. With the changes they've made the class doesn't even play the same as it used to outside of the active block stuff as well as within it. It's just not fun anymore when its more effective to hit 5 5 5 5 5 than juggle abilities, QS double tap back, LS with charged blasts thrown in etc. Granted the resist rate on LS with QS targets was gay, but I digress.

Good enough post as any to say I cancelled a couple weeks ago. I'll likely resub once they add some non grind content 55 plus. At this point I just don't enjoy grinding random mobs outside of a group, and I don't always have time to group these days.

My perspective is likely unique, but as I'd mentioned I don't enjoy grinding anymore. Understand I don't enjoy alts, I hate them I'd prefer one main but in AOC I have a 55 Assassin, 55 Tempest, 45 Bear Shaman, and 59 Necro and a spattering of 20-35's. None leveled when they were FOTM, 2 of the classes obviously never FOTM. I realize TOS was always FOTM, but it was the last character I'd rolled prior to Assassin. I waited to level the TOS expecting impending nerfs for the same reason I stopped by VG cleric @ 11 on release.

I can honestly say I had the most fun on my Assassin but I took him from 18-55 over a 4 day vacation where my son was gone, so I was completely dry on quests short of Noble's by 52. My 2c.