AOC - General Discussion II

[Flight]

Originally Posted by frlolg

I think it's great that people are finally starting to learn just how overpowered storm crown is. Get a necro friend (or many necro friends) to use the brains in pvp, storm crown, and enemies have no choice but to die to them. Every 5 seconds your storm crown will do about 2k burst damage per necro in an area around all the pets. I say use brains because if they try to kill them it's gg just as well as if they avoid them. ToS is really overpowered, even without using a single nuke.

This.


The problem is this is just one of the features which is OP - there are a whole series of them. To achieve class balance Funcom would either have to remove ToS from the game or nerf their damage and abilities by 30-40%. They won't do that or they will look like retards and a huge slice of the player base would leave.

They will do a series of small nerfs stretching out the problem, losing as many players, but over a slightly longer peirod of time.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Flight

You're wrong on a number of points. Tell me why you can't take Storm Crown, Storm Throne, Storm Regalia, Set's Life Spark, together with the Lightning Strike feats.

Oh you can - because our ToS have been raiding doing everything I said for more than the last month.

The DPS buff I'm talking about is not the one you suggest. The increased DPS as well as the huge persistent DoT are provided by Storm Crown and its upgrade feats and Symb Idol of Set (Storm Regalia is what I'm talking about - that and Symbiotic Idol of Set also being affected by pets as players.), which most of the player base evidently doesn't realise works on pets - particularly a neco with 8 pets- because its so OP its ridiculous.

Oh, so you are also getting Puppets of Set, Brain Spasms, maybe insta-cast Vitalizing Jolt, Fast-Cast, Inner Charge and Column Lightning?

Are you on a PvE server?

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Flight

Fucking hilarious how defensive ToS get when you dare to suggest they are OP. They are the most ridiculously OP class in MMO history and everyone knows it, including the people who play them.

Except I don't even play a ToS--I used to.

They are extremely overpowered in some aspects, I've already acknowledged that. The problem is when people claim they are overpowered, then give bad information.

In actual gameplay, what happens to Demos/ToS/Bear Shamans/Necros anyway? Insta-explosion from an assist-train.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by frlolg

I think it's great that people are finally starting to learn just how overpowered storm crown is. Get a necro friend (or many necro friends) to use the brains in pvp, storm crown, and enemies have no choice but to die to them. Every 5 seconds your storm crown will do about 2k burst damage per necro in an area around all the pets. I say use brains because if they try to kill them it's gg just as well as if they avoid them. ToS is really overpowered, even without using a single nuke.

They've been tweaking Storm Crown on TestLive for a long time. I'm not even sure what the current iteration is anymore, but you can expect Storm Crown to probably not proc off Necro pets soon.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Flight

Fucking hilarious how defensive ToS get when you dare to suggest they are OP. They are the most ridiculously OP class in MMO history and everyone knows it, including the people who play them.

Utter Rubbish. TOS have low HPs and at 80 in purples can still be taken out in 3 seconds by any of 5 classes.

In groups, PVP is fast and all the TOS damage spells are slow. Puppets is strong but really broken, so it doesn't really count. Visions is dodgy.

TOS have been nerfed multiple times and really were one of the few well done classes with a good focus on AE. What you should be saying is the Demo is broken, which it is. What you are doing is scream how silly OP the TOS when that's just bullshit. They have some strong feats, but those seem to be reduced every patch, thanks to people who whine, and the fact Funcom lacks high level vision for their game.

My three chars are Demo, ToS and PoM, so I know wtf I am talking about. Necrolyte is certainly talking shite. My main is a Demo, but the PoM comes off far worst of the three.

No, you don't. What level and server are you on? Is your TOS 80 in purples?

You're mad your Demo is not working properly, so you rail like the DAOC VN forum people did to get every class there nerfed into vanilla like oblivion, then wonder why the game suddenly is so fckin' boring.

Your classes are squishy(TOS), squishier(POM), and squishiest(Demo). Try playing a Guardian or Stealther. My TOS is 80, My Guardian is 80. My TOS was strong, but saying it's ridiculously OP is just crap. 3.5 sec nuke nerfed multiple times, Storm field which has also been nerfed multiple times, and really one OP ability, puppets, which is about to be neutered hardly puts it in tank mage category. I could go on and on, but I'll wager you are on a PVE server and so arguing against who really has strength is silly. Your post seems to be anger at the PVE aspects, and then silly rantings against TOS, whom are not even in the top 2 classes right now in terms of PVP or raid strength.

Originally Posted by Flight

The problem with Demo is their crap feat trees. ToS catch them on DPS due to their excellent Feat trees, especially feats for Lightning Strike. I'm also only talking about PvE, as Demo have more utility in PvP.

Demos are half baked. No doubt. However, TOS now are mediocre, also due to posts like this and kneejerk Funcom responses.

The demo's have been repeatedly nerfed, and while they do have some strong points are one of the weaker classes. They do nicely in groups but like most classes in AOC are half baked at the endgame. Again, Demos are strong in PVP groups. You are talking about raiding which you admit is fubar, but that invalidates your whole TOS is silly OP point, which they aren't.

Most of your arguments are based on feats that are dodgy and without valid parsings. Demos tear up our raids, but that is worthless as damage in PVE raids is stupid and obviously not working properly, as anyone who tries to parse can tell, especially with all the gemcrafting bugs and spells that don't work, and feats that are broken.

You have some good AOC points, but your class arguments are just plainly wrong, wrong, wrong.

[spronk]

whats really funny is that Flight and Grumpy were both arguing 2-3 months ago that AoC will be a great game, Funcom is doing stuff right don't worry, and those of us saying in beta "hmmm... this game has problems" were ignorant or liars. 2 months after launch, both have stopped playing.

[Steamrice]

I used to be like that too. When the game came out it had a lot of potential but Funcom really fucked it up with all the half-ass patching that added more bugs than they fixed everytime.

[Falmer]

Funny how passionate people still are about a game where the developers focus on class balance about as much as Soviets focused on health care in their concentration camps.

Level-up sounds are more important than healers out-damaging mages, obviously.

Originally Posted by Saban

Rolling on Deathwhisper was a terrible terrible idea.

I don't think i will ever roll on a PvP server in any MMO again unless it has a level range based pvp system.

Weird, I played 2 characters on a pvp server, and the only time I got killed more frequently was in Underhalls in the newbie city and in Kheshetta in the DMC camps.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Falmer

Level-up sounds are more important than healers out-damaging mages, obviously.

Let's not assume this kind of stuff is mutually exclusive huh Level-up sounds don't take up all the resources in development... or does it...

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Gecko

Utter Rubbish. TOS have low HPs and at 80 in purples can still be taken out in 3 seconds by any of 5 classes.

In groups, PVP is fast and all the TOS damage spells are slow. Puppets is strong but really broken, so it doesn't really count. Visions is dodgy.

TOS have been nerfed multiple times and really were one of the few well done classes with a good focus on AE. What you should be saying is the Demo is broken, which it is. What you are doing is scream how silly OP the TOS when that's just bullshit. They have some strong feats, but those seem to be reduced every patch, thanks to people who whine, and the fact Funcom lacks high level vision for their game.



No, you don't. What level and server are you on? Is your TOS 80 in purples?

You're mad your Demo is not working properly, so you rail like the DAOC VN forum people did to get every class there nerfed into vanilla like oblivion, then wonder why the game suddenly is so fckin' boring.

Your classes are squishy(TOS), squishier(POM), and squishiest(Demo). Try playing a Guardian or Stealther. My TOS is 80, My Guardian is 80. My TOS was strong, but saying it's ridiculously OP is just crap. 3.5 sec nuke nerfed multiple times, Storm field which has also been nerfed multiple times, and really one OP ability, puppets, which is about to be neutered hardly puts it in tank mage category. I could go on and on, but I'll wager you are on a PVE server and so arguing against who really has strength is silly. Your post seems to be anger at the PVE aspects, and then silly rantings against TOS, whom are not even in the top 2 classes right now in terms of PVP or raid strength.



Demos are half baked. No doubt. However, TOS now are mediocre, also due to posts like this and kneejerk Funcom responses.

The demo's have been repeatedly nerfed, and while they do have some strong points are one of the weaker classes. They do nicely in groups but like most classes in AOC are half baked at the endgame. Again, Demos are strong in PVP groups. You are talking about raiding which you admit is fubar, but that invalidates your whole TOS is silly OP point, which they aren't.

Most of your arguments are based on feats that are dodgy and without valid parsings. Demos tear up our raids, but that is worthless as damage in PVE raids is stupid and obviously not working properly, as anyone who tries to parse can tell, especially with all the gemcrafting bugs and spells that don't work, and feats that are broken.

You have some good AOC points, but your class arguments are just plainly wrong, wrong, wrong.

Think I made clear numerous times that my whole point was about PvE raiding, not PvP. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Originally Posted by spronk

whats really funny is that Flight and Grumpy were both arguing 2-3 months ago that AoC will be a great game, Funcom is doing stuff right don't worry, and those of us saying in beta "hmmm... this game has problems" were ignorant or liars. 2 months after launch, both have stopped playing.

To be fair, I regularly said I wasnt commenting on how good the game was going to be, just underlining that some people were railing about it who obviously hadnt played it. Seem to recall you were the only one who obviously played a lot of it who predicted it would be failboat.



They've taught the industry a couple of lessons. It ISN'T enough to have a cool exprience first time you play through the first few hours and just oncentre on the first 'x' levels of the game isn't going to work either. A lot of people were positiviely surprised about the game at launch - then they reached lvl 40.

Obvious Funcoms strategy was to work their arse off smoothing out the lvl 1-40 game thinking that was enough to retain customers through the first few months.


Future MMO's need to know that the whole game has to be in order. And people like Green Monster may have over estimated how important the first 30 minutes or the first few hours is, compared to lasting gameplay (I say that because I;ve seen Curt discuss the issue a few times on this forum).

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Fart

The funny part of this is that you gamer nerd guys have probably done more analysis and class balance on this one thread page than FunCom did in four years of development. Please be sure to e-mail them a copy of your work, and maybe this game will have some entertainment value in a year or so.

This isn't the half of it. Consider the Demo gets zero feats to either increase crit rate or crit damage. Then consider the effect of crafted gear with which it is easy to achieve over +600 Lightning or Fire Damage.

This increase in damage is massively more DPS for the ToS than it is for the Demo. Because all those feats that increase crits, add 40% damage to crits and crit at will, work on this added damage.


What a fucking joke asking me if I'm kitted out in purple gear. Purple gear is greater than all for tanking (purely for heroic offence and defence, which don't count towards cap), but for DPS and healing it is precisely two things - jack and shit - compared to the ridiculously easy to obtain crafted gear with gems.

Layer after layer of the game and the class system are broken and they all build into each other.



Still talking PvE here btw. I have zero interest in, and very little knowledge of, PvP.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by spronk

whats really funny is that Flight and Grumpy were both arguing 2-3 months ago that AoC will be a great game, Funcom is doing stuff right don't worry, and those of us saying in beta "hmmm... this game has problems" were ignorant or liars. 2 months after launch, both have stopped playing.

What's also funny is all the -internets the AoC fanbois were chucking around earlier in this thread. A pity that they're anonymous; a 'name and shame' threadjack would be more constructive than, well, anything else for AoC.

Anybody mentioned the expansion yet that half of the (previous) Live Team at Funcom are working on right now, btw?

[Saban]

Originally Posted by Falmer

Weird, I played 2 characters on a pvp server, and the only time I got killed more frequently was in Underhalls in the newbie city and in Kheshetta in the DMC camps.

I was killing those Vanir or whatever guys in the level 20 area off tortage, got ganked there, got ganked running there, and got ganked again inside the little city about 15 feet from where i ressed.


I know, PVP on a PVP Server whatever.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by spronk

whats really funny is that Flight and Grumpy were both arguing 2-3 months ago that AoC will be a great game, Funcom is doing stuff right don't worry, and those of us saying in beta "hmmm... this game has problems" were ignorant or liars. 2 months after launch, both have stopped playing.

Hardly.

Both said the game was fun, which it was. Saying a game is fun and could be good is hardly a flying fanbois, except for those who ignore the actual discourse and who's hyperbole meter only goes straight up or down. That's a far cry from those like Twobit screaming the game will release worse than Vanguard, then they turn around and purchase it.

I enjoyed the game and bought it based on beta, as did others. It was mosty stable and had some good things. The problem is the game is severely limited due to the lack of endgame content for hardcore types and the limited endgame. The bigger problem isn't that, but Funcom doing too much jacking, changing, and implementing things that should have been done in beta now, which irritates me. When ones AE class has it's AE spells changed to splash/limited targets it screams kneejerk bad design decision. I hate bind on equip, but suddenly that gets rolled out?

The problem I personally have is while the game has upside and a certain amount of fun, upon release instead of squashing exploiting, and rolling out content, they did mass class changes, kneejerk fixes that don't make sense from the player viewpoint, and game mechanics changes that I don't agree with.

I give these games three months to see if I'm hooked. I'm a lot farther away from the easy sell I was back in the early UO/EQ/DAOC days, but really a halfway decent community and a good game with a core is a must. AOC seemed to have those, but they are falling out fast. I hope they get their head out of their ass and get back to the real fixes

[Tananthalas]

Originally Posted by Itenza

Anybody mentioned the expansion yet that half of the (previous) Live Team at Funcom are working on right now, btw?

I had read an article that says it's not an expansion they are working on but a whole new MMO, being funded by the idiots who are paying for AoC subscription. I can try to find it if you're really interested.