AOC - General Discussion II

[Chaid]

Originally Posted by Fammaden

Thinking of trying out again, didn't really stick with it the first shot. Was thinking HoX or Ranger, are Rangers any good? What's an easy/fun class to level?

If I wasn't playing a ToS, I'd play a Ranger. They are lots of fun in world PVP and have no problem leveling. Enjoy Salvo rotations while it lasts.

[Flight]

On interesting point from tonights raid - the average hit from the ToS with LS was 50% higher than my average hit with Fires of Gehenna. LS is always a 3 sec cast, I believe ? FoG is a 2 sec cast.

Bottom line ToS single target DPS was roughly equal to a Demo.

[Gilgamel]

By the way, for those of you using that Onyx Chamber map it is not even close to accurate. there are at least twenty different loot bosses and that's not even including all the crap you can spawn downstairs at the portal. Some of them are common, some of them(fucking Tramplerage) are rare as fuck.

[DJk_zero]

Originally Posted by Saban

Depends how bitter and jaded you are.

More like depends if you play a tos / pom or not.

If your class can do melee combo attacks, the pvp game sucks.

[Hasto]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it made my night at work better.

I have no arms - Age of Conan Forums

[DJk_zero]

At least he can still bite people.

[Golbez]

Anyone try the Honor Guard today? Mother fucker hits like a god damn cement truck. With active blocking and double stepping evade 90% of the time, no way my healers can keep up with that shit.

PS fuck those epic mobs in the crypt that don't return to their spawn point and become unkillable because of evade issues.

[Kobalt]

Originally Posted by Flight

On interesting point from tonights raid - the average hit from the ToS with LS was 50% higher than my average hit with Fires of Gehenna. LS is always a 3 sec cast, I believe ? FoG is a 2 sec cast.

Bottom line ToS single target DPS was roughly equal to a Demo.

Wonder how tos compare to bear shaman now. They were the weakest healers but at least they could say they had the highest single target dps, not sure about that now.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Flight

On interesting point from tonights raid - the average hit from the ToS with LS was 50% higher than my average hit with Fires of Gehenna. LS is always a 3 sec cast, I believe ? FoG is a 2 sec cast.

Bottom line ToS single target DPS was roughly equal to a Demo.

Bring back LS cooldown! :[

[Kodylan]

Originally Posted by Hasto

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it made my night at work better.

I have no arms - Age of Conan Forums

That has to be one of the best bugs I've ever seen. Absolutely hilarious.

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Golbez

Anyone try the Honor Guard today? Mother fucker hits like a god damn cement truck. With active blocking and double stepping evade 90% of the time, no way my healers can keep up with that shit.

PS fuck those epic mobs in the crypt that don't return to their spawn point and become unkillable because of evade issues.

Should have made clear thats who we killed post patch here.


I suspect most of the evade issues are caused when mobs are surrounded and cant get to their aggro target. Dont let Necs use melee pets and never totally surround a mob.

[KianwanCT]

Originally Posted by Flight

Should have made clear thats who we killed post patch here.


I suspect most of the evade issues are caused when mobs are surrounded and cant get to their aggro target. Dont let Necs use melee pets and never totally surround a mob.

Or just dont pull agro

[Flight]

Originally Posted by KianwanCT

Or just dont pull agro

Some of the mobs constantly reset their aggro list bud and head off to someone who isn't even fighting them. Impossible to keep aggro on or off them

[Darus Grey]

On interesting point from tonights raid - the average hit from the ToS with LS was 50% higher than my average hit with Fires of Gehenna. LS is always a 3 sec cast, I believe ? FoG is a 2 sec cast.

Bottom line ToS single target DPS was roughly equal to a Demo.

Every actual parse I've seen has showed conflag demos to be the top raid DPS.

Simply comparing two nukes doesn't make them equal DPS. You're ignoring that the FoG will be doing hundreds of extra damage per second from it's innate DoT. That every 30s you get a 3x dmg version with a 1.5s cast-time(detonation). And every 6 and then 10 seconds Demo gets two instant-cast nukes(that both do about 50-60% of FoG's dmg). Plus other goodies on timers like impish horde(which at 80 will do 5-6k on a stationary target on a 2m? timer).

ToS is really good at short fights and burst damage. But on anything that takes over a minute to kill they're not even near the top.

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Darus Grey

Every actual parse I've seen has showed conflag demos to be the top raid DPS.

Simply comparing two nukes doesn't make them equal DPS. You're ignoring that the FoG will be doing hundreds of extra damage per second from it's innate DoT. That every 30s you get a 3x dmg version with a 1.5s cast-time(detonation). And every 6 and then 10 seconds Demo gets two instant-cast nukes(that both do about 50-60% of FoG's dmg). Plus other goodies on timers like impish horde(which at 80 will do 5-6k on a stationary target on a 2m? timer).

i) Your numbers are way off; its certainly not hundreds of DPS extra from its innate DoT. Typically in the majority of existing parses FoG will account for around 85% of a Conflag Demo DPS.

ii) You are also talking about before yesterdays boost to ToS LS damage.

iii) I should also point out that the damage stat I've quoted is the average hit per spell cast. FoG depends on constantly being spammed to build up Amassed Flames and other feats, which massively increases its DPS - this is the figure I've quoted for FoG average damage to be equal to LS. LS is doing that same damage per spell over an extended period of time.


iv) The insta cast spells you mention (being Shock and Hellfire Stream) don't do even half of the amount of damage you are suggesting. You cannot afford to use them constantly. In theory, on paper, you can. In practise a Conflag Demo has to be very careful to keep up the full 5 charges of Amassed Flames, or their DPS plummets. The reason for this is if you choose to cast one of those instant cast spells then get a resist on your next FOG all 5 Amassed Flames points drop and you have to start building them back up at one point per FoG cast. Detonation is a no no for the same reason.

v) Impish Hordes is a waste of feat points. It destroys your existing pet and for a very limited amount of time (usually get about 9 seconds of them actually doing any damage) it does approx double the damage of it. Resummoning your pet in the middle of a fight looses you all sorts of bonuses, so that using Impish hordes isn't a sensible option even if it were doing double the damage it does. I've dropped hordes and put a couple of points into the regen pet, which makes a massive difference to the amount of mana, stam and health regen for you and everyone else (Hell's Blood, which increases the Vila Ambrosia buff from the regen pet).



The bottom line is this - it is theoretically possible to put out more damage, but it costs you and the group and the raid, and its often not viable. The majority of a Demo DPS is confined to spamming FoG. Over the period of a raid evening a ToS LS spell put out the same damage as the Demo FoG spell. To achieve that the Demo had to use up all his feat points and concentrate on getting the best out of FoG. The ToS just had to spam LS when eh felt like and got a whole set of feat points to do what he wants with.

Let me be clear I don't want ToS nerfed; they're a great class. I guess what I am saying is I agree with Inconsiderable and Funcom got this one wrong.

Originally Posted by Darus Grey

ToS is really good at short fights and burst damage. But on anything that takes over a minute to kill they're not even near the top.

I suspect that is no longer true after yesterdays patch.