Aion - The Tower of Eternity

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by Seig

Neither of the two 49->50 took me 28 hours straight on 48/49 normals. Pre-47 it was pretty easy to manage 1-2 levels a day without sleeping.

Fixed.

[bubblegumbo]

28 hours straight to get 1 level at the end of the grind.
Anyone else looking forward to that?

[Ninen]

Only a fucking moron would look forward to that.

However is it tolerable or acceptable, that's the legitimate question. Plus with the quest exp boost patch on the table, who knows how low that number will drop.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Really? That's your counter-argument? EQ2 had me hitting a shitload of buttons too but it wasn't exactly what I would consider difficult. I guess maybe if you only have one hand or something, or really suck at setting up macro's.

There is only so and so much skill required in a game based on Everquest. I doubt this will ever change. Not sure what you dont understand about the simple concept that pressing 121213 like in other games is ineffective and slow, while the right timing and use of over a dozen abilities lets you level faster and defeat far more challenging encounters with less risk. Also Aion is less forgiving (imo) with mobs getting stronger far earlier than in other games.
I didnt play/test EQ2 because the crappy engine kept giving me errors. But I played pretty much everything else from UO on and, even more important, all the everquest clones of the latest generation. Aion is more fun for me because I notice that my personal skill has an impact on the leveling performance and because I press more than 2 buttons.

And yes, obviously many people have problems doing this. All but one of my PUGs were total failures that didnt know how to play their class effective.

Originally Posted by Aamina

Well that's what I'm talking about. 25-35 in the abyss as a melee class involves being anglebanged anally by every ranged class in existence. And this is somehow...pvp? The few times I've caught people unawares they do this tech business: Fly away. My class has no snare.

So yeah I think I'm rerolling that is just out of control gay.

Hey dude, here is an idea: In a rvr game, dont go alone as melee class into the hotspot pvp zone and try to level all alone.

Originally Posted by flv

You'll soon come to realize that zerging doesnt pay off in a system like Aion's. Seems like we're missing Daoc vets here. Today I got 243 kills in a hour with a 7 men group against a zerg of Elyos who tried to take our artifacts, died 4 times, im closer to getting my golden items than they are, and then we'll kill 800 without dying once.

Good job killing 250 lowbies! I get the same amount of abyss points for killing 6-12 people that are level ~40.

Originally Posted by Kreugen

Real PVP is ganking someone who doesn't want to be bothered, in a game that pounds you in the ass until you bleed whenever you die. Everything else is a carebear pussyfest.

Since the above is the only definition of PVP, what would you call battleground/arena style combat? Controlled Environment Player vs Player? (CEPVP)? Hand Holding Fluffy Bunny Lovefest PVP? (HHFBLPVP)? Pink Puffy Pussies vs Pussies? (PPPvP) Fuck it, just call it Team Deathmatch if it makes you happy.

Sorry, I just get terribly amused when someone starts beating their chest about "real PVP" as if the constant ebb and flow of "killing someone while having an enormous advantage" vs "dying while supremely disadvantaged" is somehow the pinnacle of human competition.

Yes, I know, the fun you refer to is smashing superior numbers with your geared out / pvp specced / headset wearing gang of butt buddies. But calling even that an accomplishment is a laugh. Its like Chuck Norris facing down 30 ninjas who attack one at a time.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling derail, I couldn't help myself.

On topic: Has Aion magically solved the mile long list of issues that make every objective-based mass PVP MMO suck total ass? Oh, people just crash you say? Bummer.

You dont even know a fuck about pvp, but thanks for rubbing your head until your mind ejaculated all over this thread like its a low budget porno.

All that whining about ganks in unfair situations is just a result of the non-pvp games adding pvp servers. Oh im so getting griefed because some highlevel kills me all the time, stupid pvp.

First of all there is a difference between controlled enviroments and uncontrolled enviroments. Open PvP within the game world will always require more skill than instances PvP without outside factors. Lets make a DotA reference to explain it. In DotA you start laning, killing creeps for experience to level up and buy items. In this time its important to pick the right heroes and put those that work well together. You have to counter jungling of the opponents and avoid being ganked. Soon the pushing and defending will start, while the speed is also based on the setups; lategame teams will defend and stall, early gamers will push as fast as possible.
The fights in the end are only a small part of the game, even thou they are decisive. Yet their outcome is often based and the advantage/disadvantage you worked for during the first half of the game.

Instanced Arena PvP is like DotA 5v5, with everybody being level 16 with x000 gold and then its one Last Man Standing until one team wins. No creeps, no bases, no leveling. Would anyone take this seriously or play it competitive like DotA is played?

In open PvP you need to understand when to engage, when to pull back, to pick the terrain that suits your strategy and you can, which is most important, improvise. Instead of following your plan like a bot, there is all kind of shit that can happen and you need to react, adapt and seize opportunities. Best example was our AoC group. We were running a caster group that was AE heavy. Our strategy was based on positioning (moving in formation) and was punishing bad positioning of the enemies (balling up = ae bomb kills them all; not balling up = we cannot ae).
In open PvP situations which often have another goal beside killing someone (take control of level spot, kill boss mob, ...) we were raping people badly. Guildgroups of even 18 people were defeated flawlessly by our 6. They simply didnt have the coordination to deal with our more advanced tactics. We didnt play fotm either, melee ("weapon user") groups were dominating caster groups.

But when we joined the battlegrounds the fights got closer, we even lost every now and then. And there was this one guild.. we basicly won 6v12 in open pvp and barely managed to win 6v6 AGAINST THE SAME PEOPLE in the battleground. The reason they could keep up with us, was the reduced difficulty of the instanced pvp. The terrain was limited, the groups were forced to act in a predictable manner (fulfill battleground objective) and there were no outside factors that could be used to improvise. Also they could take a look at the score tab to see our exact lineup and make a plan before actually engaging.
Thats all reduced difficulty and less skill / fast thinking required.

It also completely eliminates any guild politics, plans or macro decisions which usually has a huge impact on pvp games. While at first this might not look that bad for many, it makes the fights shallow and simple.
There is only so and so much skill involved when everybody meets with their characters, all playing by the same guides, using the same builds someone else thought of, using the latest cookie cutter strategy in an arena with limited options and freedom, to fight a predictable battle. There is only a very minor amount of skill and competition involved as long as you dont base your game on this kind of pvp like Guild Wars did.

If you think open pvp, ffa pvp, even death penalties (and everything else the socalled hardcore pvper want) are about killing helpless people or because they want to pvp only with huge disadvantage or such pvp is only good for griefing you are one hell of a newbish fool.
This is the kind of pvp where skill actually matters in a MMO. Its challenging, unpredictable and requires more different player skills than pressing some buttons like the guide said.

Thats the reason we look down on those instance pvp arenas.

Anyway, you asked about the terminology. As always its not that easy. Look at "ganking". If I use the word, I talk about a "gang kill", about several people ganging up to kill one guy. Thats was ganking actually meant. Nowadays every retard says "i got ganked" if a single person killed him. How can a single person gang up on your, moron?
There is no clearly defined term about PvP you can find in a dictionary. But as you asked me, here is what I think about the terms and how I use them:

PvP = Player vs Player, describs basicly any combat actions between players. A PvP Game is about fighting other player, if you go pvp, you might join a battleground or run around in a zone looking for prey.

FFA PvP = You can attack everyone. This solves griefplay as the community can use vigilante justice to control itself. The most important thing I am looking for in a pvp game.
Here players create their own factions based around guilds and alliances.

RvR = A form of casual pvp which splits the players into 2 or more hardcoded factions. This way every moron will have "allies" to help him fight. Breeds infaction grief play because of hardcoded protections.

Arena PvP = Instanced PvP, usually some kind of minigame. Often called PvE-PvP or Carebear-PvP

PK (player killer) = A playstyle based on killing players, no matter what. 10v1, lvl-60 vs lvl-10, and so on. Best with some death penalty / loot. There is no honor in PK, it it is not about the challenge, but about the kill.

PvPer = A playstyle based on fighting other player, its not primary about getting a kill at any cost. The challenge of competition is involved. PvPer play PvP games. Playing a PvP-Minigame in a PvE game doesnt make you a PvPer. It makes you someone who likes PvP-Minigames. Just because you sing in the shower you are not a singer. That you like some amateurish freestyling with your friends doesnt make you a rapper. And playing soccer games on your xbox doesnt make you a soccer star.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong that people dont like real pvp and want it more casual... I dont look down upon those gamers. Yet somehow many people feel inferior and cheated about their precious achievements, get angry about it and so on.
If you like casual pvp, hell if you like competing in casual pvp (mini)games, whats the problem? Its like you have a guitar hero party with some friends and start claiming you are an awesome musician because of your highscores. And when your buddy that plays in a band points out that actually making music yourself is different... you get all angry at him and start explainin that you also used your hands and did use a tool to make the music just like the other musicians do which makes you one.

Enjoy the wall of engrish.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

There is only so and so.....

10charlimit

[flv]

(1880 AP/243 kills)*7 members=54 AP

They werent that lowbie when the media of AP per person is 54, Im not giving much more to them than that neither, then again, I haven't pve'd in the abyss.

[Muligan]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

You dont even know a fuck about pvp, but thanks for rubbing your head until your mind ejaculated all over this thread like its a low budget porno.

That is just beautifully put...

All kidding aside, I think you hit the nail on the hit in respect to a lot of complaints towards PvP across the board.

I don't know how many people I would like to refer to this...

[Zaniel]

Well today was fun. Had four separate PVP experiences encapsulating most of what's available.

We started off the day with a 2 group alliance going Tower camping in the Abyss on Siel. Found ourselves about 20 Asmos and spent about an hour and a half too-ing and fro-ing luring them away from their tower and rushing one another. Decent fun, nothing outrageous, eventually reinforcements showed up and we got split in two due to not using Vent and all went face down.

Second up for the day, Sulphur Fort siege. A lead guild is putting together a raid force when we hear that the Asmos have beaten us to the punch and are trying to take Sulphur from the Balaur before us.

We have something like 70 to their 80ish (I would guess) and decide to hammer them from behind. Massive fight lasting at least an hour and a half back and forth forcing our way in through the main gate and down the stairs. They finally push us back and break our lines. We regroup.

During all this a scattering of lone Asmos decide to pick off the returning soldiers on the way back to Sulphur (no real kisks in play, very pug). Had to 1v1 my way through 3 different Asmos to get back.

We attack again. 2/3 of our forces attacks theirs down the stairwell while our remaining 1/3 blockade the fort door to prevent returning Asmo reinforcements. Finally we wipe the last of them out and turn to the general. Unfortunately our levels were just a bit too low and we couldnt muster the DPS. His HP were slowly going down when the Balaur respawn happens and we all wipe.

Finally right at the end of the day we go rifting through the Temple in Eracus. 1 & 1/2 groups and we had a good leader. Went on a shits 'n' giggles rampage through mid-tier Asmodea slaughtering farmers left right n centre.

171 kills later, a good day. Plus I got in some tradeskilling and levelling and a few quests, voila. Best MMO day in quite a while.

PS: With 150 people in one fight I wasnt really lagging much at all. I could target, fire spells and basically play normally just with less visibility due to corridors and stairwells. I never insta-splatted from something I couldn't see and only died when I got over-eager or careless. Always felt like I was doing something, find a ranger, inferno him down. Find a cleric, sleep him, etc etc.

[Draegan]

I got ganked a few times in the Abyss yesterday by some rank 4's. Why Rank 4 Elyos are ganking 25-28 rank 8's I don't know unless they're doing it for fun. Which I understand I suppose.

[Big W Powah!]

You went to the wrong side. Asmos for lose.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

PvPer = A playstyle based on fighting other player, its not primary about getting a kill at any cost. The challenge of competition is involved.

ahahah

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

dotdot

you just won the thread. everyone else arguing about what pvp is? pack it up, go home.

[thenix]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

If you like casual pvp, hell if you like competing in casual pvp (mini)games, whats the problem? Its like you have a guitar hero party with some friends and start claiming you are an awesome musician because of your highscores. And when your buddy that plays in a band points out that actually making music yourself is different... you get all angry at him and start explainin that you also used your hands and did use a tool to make the music just like the other musicians do which makes you one.

So what do you think the solution is? Should huge mmorpg manufacturers that boast having PVP embrace an EVE/UO style PVP?

Originally EQ had 2 types of servers, PVE were you couldn't kill anyone else, and PVP were you could kill anyone, at any time, from any race or faction. I remember getting in a fight at level 1 on a server like that.

[chu]

Originally Posted by Ninen

Only a fucking moron would look forward to that.

However is it tolerable or acceptable, that's the legitimate question. Plus with the quest exp boost patch on the table, who knows how low that number will drop.

Only a moron would care how long it takes. You don't have to do it in 1-2 sittings; What's wrong with it taking a couple of weeks of semi-casual play?

The question is, are you having fun while doing it?

[Dink]

For whoever was asking about the DP crafting thing earlier:

You're thinking of morphing. It lets you turn lower level materials into higher level materials. For example:
Morph Method: Aria - Items - Aion

morph - Aion <- list of morphs

The lowest level one costs 200 DP each time, dunno if it changes at higher levels because I haven't messed around with it. Also I believe characters start with the morph ability, you should be able to find it in your skill list.