Aion - The Tower of Eternity

[CnCGOD]

Parsing etc seems to take away the enjoyment that raiding has. I think raiding was a LOT more fun back in pre-BC wow when you didn't have nearly as much and when people did parse it was mostly ignored.

Now its a stupid job , the fun factor is gone 100%. When 5th rate guilds ask for WWS reports for applicants it gets old fast.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by CnCGOD

Go to hell, serious its attitudes like that that turn raiding from fun to a fucking job. Fuck squeezing 1% more dps if it means you have to parse your godamn logs 24/7 to see if you missed 1 spell in 15 spell rotation etc.

The game should reward reactions and intuition not stupid bullshit like that. Wow raiding has become a fucking travesty of stupidity with the advent of WWS and other parsing tools.

The issue is, without combat log, there's no fucking way to know if you're doing good or not, it doesn't reward reaction or intuition or randomness or luck, it doesn't reward anything, because you don't know if what you did was good or bad. It's really stupid when people say they're happy there's no damage meters in my opinion, I understand they're happy there's no threat meter, or CC timers, or boss announces, but damage meters are the only way to do a SELF evaluation of your performance, and know if you're doing fine or if you should work harder.

Joe the retard ALWAYS thinks he's doing good. I mean, he was the top dawg of his Halo tournament with his friends, he must be really good at video games, so he's a super DPS. Without a damage meter, there's no way to find out he's actually a fucking tool. But same goes for good players, there's no way for them to find out if their new skill order is better than the old one, if they're timing autoattacks right or if their gear choice is adequate. If by intuition you meant just doing things randomly, then yes it's just fine that way. I call that stupid.

[melicant]

Originally Posted by Pyros

The issue is, without combat log, there's no fucking way to know if you're doing good or not, it doesn't reward reaction or intuition or randomness or luck, it doesn't reward anything, because you don't know if what you did was good or bad. It's really stupid when people say they're happy there's no damage meters in my opinion, I understand they're happy there's no threat meter, or CC timers, or boss announces, but damage meters are the only way to do a SELF evaluation of your performance, and know if you're doing fine or if you should work harder.

Joe the retard ALWAYS thinks he's doing good. I mean, he was the top dawg of his Halo tournament with his friends, he must be really good at video games, so he's a super DPS. Without a damage meter, there's no way to find out he's actually a fucking tool. But same goes for good players, there's no way for them to find out if their new skill order is better than the old one, if they're timing autoattacks right or if their gear choice is adequate. If by intuition you meant just doing things randomly, then yes it's just fine that way. I call that stupid.

I see your point when it comes to PVE performance. In PvP it's pretty easy to evaluate performance based on the outcome of fights. That's the one thing I like so much about PvP... nothing is scripted and every fight is different. There is no standard rotation to use or planned spots to move to at stages of an encounter. As a primarily PvP game I don't see any need for damage meters or damage parsing. I knew a lot of people in WoW that owned the WWS and damage meters, but sucked something fierce in PvP when stuff wasn't so scripted.

[DJk_zero]

See, the thing is that in a PvP game, Joe the retard will be dealt with through the other players. No amount of meters, graphs or spreadsheets will change the fact that bad players will ultimately sort themselves out, and there is no concrete set of rules that occur in pvp fights, for which rotations etc mean jack shit.

[Pyros]

I said that in the first post on the subject, that because it's PvP oriented, it's not a big issue. There's still PvE content, but it's not problematic there either, besides the few time based instances which I guess you'd run in a full guild group anyway.

It's still annoying to figure out mechanics, but that's fine I guess, don't need to understand everything in detail.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by DJk_zero

Exactly.

The comments from people saying 'I'll wait a few months' are the ones treating this like a brand new release, which it is not. If you don't like AION how it is now, you never will because there is no magical 2 months post release patch coming down that changes everything.

Well my point was "I'll wait and see until the endgame is gazed upon by occidental eyes" combined with a side order of "Will NCSoft pay any attention whatsoever to us?" with a light garnish of "How long is localization going to take on a patch by patch basis?" but feel free to wave your e-clit around some more if it makes you feel better.

[Draegan]

Well the 1.5 patch is going to be delivered to Korea and NA/EU at the same time.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by CnCGOD

Parsing etc seems to take away the enjoyment that raiding has. I think raiding was a LOT more fun back in pre-BC wow when you didn't have nearly as much and when people did parse it was mostly ignored.

Now its a stupid job , the fun factor is gone 100%. When 5th rate guilds ask for WWS reports for applicants it gets old fast.

There has to be some level of parsing, even if its little numbers floating above the mobs heads. You need to understand when you should use various abilities and have priorities.

The parsings should be natural and not forced. It would be an improvement of wow if they had accurate logging / meters built into the goddamned game, because everything in the game is built around them... from raid formation to actually playing it.



So I'm not sure how you can consider the one aspect of skill in a pseudo-turnbased game to be tedious or inessential. If anything, not knowing what the fuck you're really doing or how powerful you are relative to others is tedious.

If I apply ability/item X to enemy Y I want to see how doing it at that specific time was considered by the game. I don't want it hidden from view and replaced with the enemy playing ugh.mp3 no matter if i did 1000 or 10 damage, and arg.mp3 if it died. As said, otherwise I have no idea if what I did was the best I could have done.

If that was the case, you could just loot "sword" and when you mouse over it, it says "sword" with zero stats. Then you go out and swing it on a goblin and discover that it actually hurts you when you use it! lol cursed sword of poop, and now its stuck to your hand for 12 turns

That sweet spot is completely arbitrary and based on taste more than anything else, but it is still baffling to me that it is considered anything other than a cost / technical issue of storing and creating those logs and the ability to see what happened from that point of view.

This could all be incorporated into the game in a cool, inobtrusive way and have been slowly anyway. Pulling aggro, threat, damage done and taken, healing, overhealing, overkill damage, damage prevented, buffs gained/lost and the returns from those. On top of all that there are the types. On top of that you could show the various bonuses gained from a hit. Wouldn't it be great to see how much each stat/buff actually helped an attack along or hindered it?

The fact that shields in WoW don't have an owner / who cast them is beyond ridonkulous, for example, and leads to a lot of abacus wielders to jizz themselves over figuring it all out because it isn't clearly obvious from actually playing the fucking game. Oh, wait, the one thing that was obvious is that it at one point (no idea if still is) it would trigger from simultaneous breaks when it was not supposed to, the same way some other shit did. Way to go, bug detectives!

So, I don't know. People have faith in thinking that some developers' idea of how the interface should go is going to be good enough. But as soon as there's one thing you'd like to do that you can't, it just ends up being the dev's failure.




Tangentially the comments about "quest experience is like 4 mobs" is exactly what i was talking about regarding being concerned that if it isn't a rang rang grind game it is steeped in that tradition. I didn't think a debate over cultural tolerance towards killing something over and over again was necessary, but those sorts of things creep into the game.

forgive players who want to hit max level so that yet another vector of inequality is removed from their pvping.

[Brikker]

To get off of this add-on/parsing conversation,

I played one beta weekend but didn't notice if there was any sort of system like talents. Is there?

And an unrelated thing: the naming filter. Does anyone know if they have any plans to modify this? While I generally don't give a shit, I've always been really annoyed when naming filters don't at least make you capitalize the first letter of a name :P

[possible]

Or you can know you're doing things right when your group of 5 is standing over a group of 10?

(Which was the point of half the earlier posts of this parsing shit, it's a PvP game)

Originally Posted by Brikker

To get off of this add-on/parsing conversation,

I played one beta weekend but didn't notice if there was any sort of system like talents. Is there?

And an unrelated thing: the naming filter. Does anyone know if they have any plans to modify this? While I generally don't give a shit, I've always been really annoyed when naming filters don't at least make you capitalize the first letter of a name :P

Not really talents, you get Stigmas, which are basically powerful extra skills, but you can only choose a limited number of them. Hopefully they change the filter, there's already the xXcoOLnaMesXx's.

[Rhedd]

In the first beta, Amy to 20, I got no skill lag whatsoever. Since Beta 2, when the servers get crowded my skills can take up 5-10 seconds to register. Is everyone else seeing this? Or is it just my machine be stupid?

[Draegan]

The Israphel server had some issues, but the other servers were ok. Other than that it's probably you.

[epr0 | Camper_love]

Originally Posted by Pyros

I don't know if you're right that the game is gonna fail or not, however I'm quite curious about this particular sentence. I tried rereading it a few times, and honestly I can't seem to understand how the 2nd part of the sentence is related to the first. Are the classes unbalanced because the sieges are a lag fest? What video of exploring castles? Anything pointing out to class imbalance somewhere, maybe in that video?

Ya wow sorry, I made that post at like 3am.

Here's the video I was talking about, I'm sure it has already been linked.

Video Games - E3 2009 - PC Gaming

One of the things she said in that video was something along the lines of "Imagine hundreds of players fighting their way through this castle."

I played WAR at release and was one of the first level 40's. Lag was the enemy, and unless this game has a magic solution to it, it's going to be the same problem.

And I was reading the SA forums, a lot of people who are in beta or whatever were saying how the classes weren't made for 1v1 balance just like WAR. They were made for large scale PvP. Which is great in theory, but much like in WAR, it really sucked. Example was a full geared Black Orc taking on 3 people no problem.

[DJk_zero]

WAR's game engine was (and still is) total shit in both the performance and netcode departments. That's pretty much why WAR is a failure, the game engine and network handling behind it simply does not work well at all even in Tier1, let alone t2+.

[Araxen]

Originally Posted by Draegan

Part of me likes the parsing, and study that goes into your class, and part of me really doesn't want to put up with it.

The better the science that goes into your class the more people that will adopt the cookie cutter build which can equalize a lot of people in the middle. Without it though, you have people more spread out through the spectrum.

Which in turn can make it surprising if somehow you come up with a build on your own or on accident and it works out.

In WoW I think the game has been somewhat ruined by all the you can't join my raid/dungeon unless you do this amount of dps or you don't have the gear or you don't have this achievement(which is the biggest bunch of bullshit of the three). The game has turned into one big ass spreadsheet now and I feel the game is suffering for it. It's partially one of the reason I stopped enjoying the game, but it isn't the main reason. I'm glad NCsoft/Aion are staying away from addons in this game even though if you look in the options it looks like they could easily make it happen.

I'm all for addons to get me wrong, but the approach wow has is what I don't like. I think Warhammer actually got it right for the most part except the UI did allow for some dps mods I believe. I would think those kind should be banned. If you want to parse dps you can do by parsing your text log outside of the game. 90% of the people won't even bother with it then.

PS: I'm not some dumbass who does 400 dps on his Mage 25man Naxx either in WoW. I was consistently top DPS on any raid I went on so it's not that "I suxorz at the game and do shitty n00b dps". I just think mmo's are better without that kind of shit.