Aion - The Tower of Eternity

[Sharmai]

Looks like a brutal system. But it also looks like if you see someone at a high rank you KNOW they are good. To rank up fast you'd have to kill higher players who are going to be working their ass of on NOT dying. yet also killing you. This would be a WoW rogues wet dream of a PvP system.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Elidrin

So what do you guys think about the Abyss Points system? It seems like it's fine in the Soldier ranks and the higher you get the less you actually want to participate in PvP because each death sets you back more and more. I wasn't a huge fan of the honor grinding system in WoW but this seems even worse by comparison. I think there should be some penalty but the system just seems really flawed in it's current iteration.

I didnt check the new honor system in WoW but Aion is different to the old sucky honor grind and different from the grind-point-to-buy-gear approach wow stole from guild wars.

Basicly you only get a high rank if you are good. It doesnt matter how much you play and "grind" pvp point; you can only keep them if you are good. Most people will never get to the high abyss ranks which is good as max rank can go 1v10 with guardian transformation.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Fair enough.

Anyways..

I think it'll do roughly the same as Warhammer. Huge initial turnout, then people realize there's a veritable dearth of reason to play after the first week and it'll start to hemorrhage players. Then WoW will release 3.2 and people will be asking "Aion what?" as epix rain down from the sky.

Which is a shame because it's such a gorgeous game. But so was lotro and I could only handle killing orcs and nothing but orcs for so long. Maybe this mysterious PvE content they keep referring to in 1.5 will prove otherwise.

It would be nice if it did really well though and lit a fire under Blizzards ass so we'd have an honest to god choice on what MMO to play again.

That comparison doesn't make sense. Lotro had just orcs, I understand that complaint, but aion has a pretty wide variety of mobs.

I don't see that derth of content. But we'll see. It could happen, I didn't see the high end content but you didn't either. I'm only going off of the first 20 levels and there is plenty to do.

Aions crafting system is better, ill say that. I just think you're trolling the thread still because your critisms don't really make sense.

[Sharmai]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Fair enough.

Anyways..

I think it'll do roughly the same as Warhammer. Huge initial turnout, then people realize there's a veritable dearth of reason to play after the first week and it'll start to hemorrhage players. Then WoW will release 3.2 and people will be asking "Aion what?" as epix rain down from the sky.

Which is a shame because it's such a gorgeous game. But so was lotro and I could only handle killing orcs and nothing but orcs for so long. Maybe this mysterious PvE content they keep referring to in 1.5 will prove otherwise.

It would be nice if it did really well though and lit a fire under Blizzards ass so we'd have an honest to god choice on what MMO to play again.

Does 3.2 look that interesting to you? 3.1 was great with dual specs and all but it only added uldnar and another pvp boss right? 3.2 is argent tournament with a handful of new bosses and no trash before them?

It just doesn't feel all that interesting anymore. In depth crafting, housing systems, guild housing-seiging-tax system, fully developed pvp systems/zones, and new classes would all be really exciting but one more dungeon with harder bosses for +5 more to my stats? That's all WoW has to offer?

I'm not saying WoW is going to die or even be hurt by Aion but I can't help but wonder if people aren't really starting to feel extremely bored of WoW. I looked at my login screen and realized I only have two classes that aren't 80. I can't bring myself to run them through uldnar for two sets of dual spec gear all so I can do the excat same thing in 3.2 for +5 more stats? *shudder*

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Draegan

That comparison doesn't make sense.

Lotro was a pretty game that didn't do as well as I had hoped. /end comparison. It's not that hard, even you should be able to get it.

I'm only going off of the first 20 levels and there is plenty to do.

Read some of the Korean interviews. You basically grind abyss points all day as you level up. It's the WoW honor grind only "ALL COOL AND DIFFERENT!" because you need a bigger guild to make sure you don't accidentally run into a larger gank squad then what you have.

They're supposedly adding more things to do in 1.5 but so far we don't have many details on how those things play out.

The PvPvE aspect feels like it could have potential. Flying in and wiping out someone doing Doomwalker and then taking the kill was fun in TBC. This being the majority of end game PvE focus in Aion could turn out to be awesome and I hope it is. The encounters themselves are basic tank and spanks relying on people fucking with you to mak them interesting though.

In WoW, it being tier0 content for the time though is what kept it from turning into a 8 way guild mashup that would ultimately never end. While great for PvP, there wouldn't exactly be much PvE going on which may turn off some customers.

I just think

And I just think you're trying to troll me. Mission accomplished.

Originally Posted by Sharmai

Does 3.2 look that interesting to you?

New heirloom items, mounting made more accessible for lower levels (only a matter of time before they drop the price of epic flying I hope), being able to level up in battlegrounds, running heroics for badges for all those people who aren't sitting in full Ulduar gear (read: 80+% of the population), a new battleground. A ridiculous number of new vanity pets and mounts for the OCD crowd. A new 5 man dungeon.

For hardcore raiders we'll have 10 and 25 man tribute runs.

If getting gear++ sounds boring to you, you've been playing the wrong genre for quite some time now. Do you really think that's what Aion won't boil down to? You're going to grind abyss points to get gear++ so you can grind abyss points more gooder. Welcome to the MMO treadmill.

I'm honest to god hoping that Aion does well enough and the PvP is kickass enough that WoW has to actually fucking compete. But if the past 4 years has taught us anything it's that expecting any game to compete with WoW in any meaningful way will just lead you to a half erect penis and wondering where your wallet is.

[Gwen Rockpounder]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

(only a matter of time before they drop the price of epic flying I hope)

Indeed, moving it to Kirin Tor so the exalteds can save 1k is aiming it at a very small market.

Then again, 150% speed for all normal flying mounts is better than a punch in the mush I guess.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You're going to grind abyss points to get gear++ so you can grind abyss points more gooder. Welcome to the MMO treadmill.

*own people with that mindset all day long in pvp because even their zergs wont help

Some people play PvP games to do some ... ... PvP!

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

*own people with that mindset all day long in pvp because even their zergs wont help

Some people play PvP games to do some ... ... PvP!

I just hope the Abyss is mostly lag free and zerg fests don't reduce me down to -10 FPS.

[Zehn - Vhex]

No shit Sherlock. Look at the context in which that statement was made and in reply to what criticism. Fuck.

You can keep going on with that "Silly rabbit, trix are for kids!" attitude all you like as well. It's served pvp MMO's so well.

I mean, WAR and AoC wouldn't be complete piles of trash if everybody would just join guilds, right? Because then all the bad aspects of PvP in those games just get washed away and people would ignore the lack of a PvE endgame.

Jesus fucking Christ. Yes I like to play PvP games to PvP. I'd also like my opponents to stick around rather then say "fuck this game" and quit.

[Vandyn]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Jesus fucking Christ. Yes I like to play PvP games to PvP. I'd also like my opponents to stick around rather then say "fuck this game" and quit.

And here lies the problem with PvP. Aion will have the same problem. History continues to show us that if you don't have a big enough carrot to dangle in front of the player, a majority of the playerbase isn't going to care for long. Now, you can maybe get away with that in a PvE game and stay afloat but it's absolute murder for a game that's based on PvP because that type of game requires enough players to give a shit and not just for the first month of launch either.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

No shit Sherlock. Look at the context in which that statement was made and in reply to what criticism. Fuck.

You can keep going on with that "Silly rabbit, trix are for kids!" attitude all you like as well. It's served pvp MMO's so well.

I mean, WAR and AoC wouldn't be complete piles of trash if everybody would just join guilds, right? Because then all the bad aspects of PvP in those games just get washed away and people would ignore the lack of a PvE endgame.

Jesus fucking Christ. Yes I like to play PvP games to PvP. I'd also like my opponents to stick around rather then say "fuck this game" and quit.

I don't think those 2 failed just because people didn't join guilds. They were also failures even for the people in guilds. AoC had absolutely no pvp content and severe balance problems(zerk one shotting people, ToS in general). WAR suffered from terrible terrible class design that pretty much broke any form of high lvl pvp. DPS was too high across the board, CC was way way too powerful, especially AE CC, AEing also was way to powerful and basically the best way to deal with players(AEs should never be the way to deal with players, only with trash mobs), and the whole reward for pvp system was broken from the start and never fixed. Also suffered multiple client/lag issues as well as straight up non working Tactics and Spells.

I think ultimately these games failed not because they were PvP oriented, but simply because they were bad games. That doesn't mean Aion won't fail, but I think at least the classes seem to be working fine, and are rather balanced(minus SM). The endgame already exists, and there's a decent amount of pve in 1.5 too for people that don't want to pvp all day. The fact the game has been released for a while helps a lot, it's like an extended beta.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Lotro was a pretty game that didn't do as well as I had hoped. /end comparison. It's not that hard, even you should be able to get it.

In WoW, it being tier0 content for the time though is what kept it from turning into a 8 way guild mashup that would ultimately never end. While great for PvP, there wouldn't exactly be much PvE going on which may turn off some customers.

And I just think you're trying to troll me. Mission accomplished.

Yeah, I'm trolling you. You got me there. You made the comparison for LOTRO because all you did was kill orcs, which is not a valid argument for Aion. You mentioned that people will get bored after a week of play. I countered they wouldn't because there is enough for everyone to do inside that week.

As far as the Abyss grind it's PVP. That what the game is there for. You can actually lose points which should make you care about zerging because it's easier to die in that chaos than in a controlled small group fight. But since you lose points it's not a WOW grind of time. You don't have to spend a million hours a day grinding out battlegrounds because in the end the outcome is the same. Time = reward. Here you have to win for reward. Different motivation.

Re: Your wonderful awesome new stuff in WOW:

New heirloom items, mounting made more accessible for lower levels (only a matter of time before they drop the price of epic flying I hope), being able to level up in battlegrounds, running heroics for badges for all those people who aren't sitting in full Ulduar gear (read: 80+% of the population), a new battleground. A ridiculous number of new vanity pets and mounts for the OCD crowd. A new 5 man dungeon.

You make it sound a new 5 man dungeon, vanity pets, rerunning alts and old dungeons is enough to keep players around that are considering finding another game if a good one comes around. Of course all those shiny new things to grind for will keep and obsessed person around, but that person wasn't playing a new game anyway.

I'm honest to god hoping that Aion does well enough and the PvP is kickass enough that WoW has to actually fucking compete. But if the past 4 years has taught us anything it's that expecting any game to compete with WoW in any meaningful way will just lead you to a half erect penis and wondering where your wallet is.

I hope the game is great also. I don't expect any game to compete with WOW. I never said Aion will ever compete on that scale.

What I am pointing out is that you come here and discount the game for reasons that don't make sense. If you're going to disparage the game do so with what is true.

The Abyss Point grind? Yeah it'll be there. But it's the same grind as fighting in a raid dungeon over and over. I just prefer the PVP flavor vs. the PVE flavor. But don't try to pretend that WOW's approach to PVE is any better in theory than Aion's. You can argue quality of the content once we get to see it.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Aion - The Tower of... 07-15-2009 12:55 PM Compete with wow pvp ........ LOL

Wow, some absolute thickee's around today. Listen up shithead. I didn't say that WoW pvp is anything grand or entertaining. In fact I'm pretty sure you can find and quote me on saying that WoW pvp is probably the biggest atrocity to assault the gamesphere in recent memory.

My point, which you obviously are incapable of grasping and should fuck back off to arguments you can wrap your head around like whether or not your piss tastes bad, is that I hope Aion doesn't end up a niche game like Eve where it's PvP is only marginally better and that the entire game package fails to deliver to a level where it causes other games in the indsutry to move foward instead of stagnate like they've done for the past few years because nobody has a hope of doing anything but earning enough money to keep the lights on.

Here you have to win for reward. Different motivation.

The rich get richer. Again, as requested gonna keep this argument to the GMG thread.

You make it sound a new 5 man dungeon

And you make it sound like the people looking for a new MMO who are bored of WoW are going to play a game that is about as close to a WoW clone as you can possibly get. Only instead of hundreds of collectables for the OCD nation we've cultured ourselves into you get a 50% chance to resist kidney shot, sketchy details on whether or not PvE is even worth it and a more fap worthy avatar.

Time will tell but it's better to be pessimistic about this sorts of things because it's the only way you won't get hurt. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised then have yet another soulcrushing experience when it turns out FF:TA is a steaming pile of bullshit.

The rest of your post

You're talking about Aion like it's your fucking girlfriend and I just said she has a fat ass. Relax. If you don't like people critiquing video games you're probably in the wrong fucking place. I've made perfectly legitimate arguments and so far the counter-arguments have been either gross retardation (lol shitty pvp mechanics r fine, lern2guild!) and you trying to argue semantics.

[Gecko]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

I didnt check the new honor system in WoW but Aion is different to the old sucky honor grind and different from the grind-point-to-buy-gear approach wow stole from guild wars.

Basicly you only get a high rank if you are good. It doesnt matter how much you play and "grind" pvp point; you can only keep them if you are good. Most people will never get to the high abyss ranks which is good as max rank can go 1v10 with guardian transformation.

I get the feeling good will mean you do things in the 'Conquest' manner.

Skill isn't really that important in diku clones. What matters is understanding the game, and more importantly the loopholes.

[Heavens_Myst]

The rich get richer is not a valid criticism. It's a veiled excuse for people who suck that don't want to try.