[WoW]Wotlk:Raid instances to have 10 and 25 man versions, Death Knight starts at 55 - Page 32

Sunder · 05-19-2008, 08:38 AM

YouTube - Molten Core version 2.0 (Blizzcon)

Blizzard does listen. And this is what they think of your ideas.

Digits · 05-19-2008, 09:39 AM

This whole debate about instance length really showcases one of the undeniable downfalls of instances: You either do the whole thing, or it's a waste of time. The best loot, usually the only stuff worthwhile too, comes from the final boss. If you don't have the time to get to him, or the capacity to kill him, you've officially wasted your time. By eliminating social dungeons, and especially by removing camps, developers have designed themselves into a corner. People don't like long instances, and they do genuinely blow after the first time, so they have to keep designing things shorter and simpler with better rewards. As developers strip themselves of options to design content, we players are even more stripped in options to enjoy the game.

Blows all around.

Jubee · 05-19-2008, 10:27 AM

I've done dozens of "large" dungeons in multiple MMOs and in every single one, there is a generally accepted optimal way to get through it to make the run as short as possible. I have no issue with making every dungeon a hour long. If I want to keep going, I'll do a different wing. But I don't want a 3 hour clear to the final boss just for him to not drop the item I want. I had enough of that trying to farm my t0 bp.

GrobbeeTrull2.0 · 05-19-2008, 10:57 AM

I really think that WoW could benefit from EQ2's style of dungeons; a mix of public dungeon with place holders and spawns and whatnot, and then the "good loot" is instanced in short pocket zones that require 30-60 minutes of time.

Named in the public dungeon part drop mostly rare loot, very rarely (but more often than normal world drop epics) epics. Spawn times about 5-7 minutes.

Instances stay how they are.

kaid · 05-19-2008, 11:11 AM

Honestly having done both eq2 instanced and non instanced dungeons and wow 5 and 10 man dungeons I think all instanced dungeons is better. We were working on the scantum of the scaleborn quests in eq2 and if I never step foot in that dungeon again it will be to soon. Because they can't let the place become a loot pinata you basically now are forced to run back and forth between a few rooms killing place holders until you want to shoot somebody.

Then when you do get a boss its a simple tank and spank fight. After doing these simple tank and spank fights then doing the kael fight in Magisters terrace I would much rather have a simple hallway dungeon with fun fights than a non instanced dungeon with shit loads of trash to clear and boring bosses for mediocre if any loot.

Sharmai · 05-19-2008, 11:22 AM

I wouldn't mind having an outdoor "public" dungeon but considering how many guilds/players there are it would be camped 24/7 by both sides and just be a massive pvp slaughter fest. it would be fun for a minority few but BS for a majority. (Think hillsbrad but with mobs) 1 -2 or these wouldn't be bad for the people that love these type of things but the bitching that would follow because they have to work "harder" to get their loot as they have to fight mobs and players would be loud and whiney indeed. The last thing I'd ever want is to have to be forced into group pvp fests al la AV to get quests done.

BurnemWizfyre · 05-19-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder

YouTube - Molten Core version 2.0 (Blizzcon)

Blizzard does listen. And this is what they think of your ideas.

Am i the only one after watching that video that is depressed that wont actually make it into the game

?

Jabberwhacky · 05-19-2008, 02:30 PM

I think it's weird he made a "joke" of saying that "Only about 20 people got to kill Sapphiron." He and his boys at Blizz were the ones who decided on putting out TBC, raising the level cap, lowering the raid cap, and now sound almost annoyed that the content didn't get used. That's the impression I got, at least.

Mist · 05-19-2008, 02:30 PM

WoW could definitely benefit from some non instanced dungeon type areas, or at least high spawn density, enclosed spaces with elite mobs and better than normal rewards.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-19-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubee

I've done dozens of "large" dungeons in multiple MMOs and in every single one, there is a generally accepted optimal way to get through it to make the run as short as possible. I have no issue with making every dungeon a hour long. If I want to keep going, I'll do a different wing. But I don't want a 3 hour clear to the final boss just for him to not drop the item I want. I had enough of that trying to farm my t0 bp.

For the 19th goddamn time...fuck it, never mind.

Cybsled · 05-19-2008, 03:42 PM

While less trash heavy dungeons are great in many cases, don't forget that pre-lvl cap they are avenues of XP.

Zerai · 05-19-2008, 04:02 PM

In EQ, longer dungeons just meant more to invis through unless it was one of the few that was good xp in which case you killed when you got to your camp for AA.

Northerner · 05-19-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerai

In EQ, longer dungeons just meant more to invis through unless it was one of the few that was good xp in which case you killed when you got to your camp for AA.

What do you mean really?

Other than key runs or specific quest runs, when were you in a dungeon in EQ where you were not setting up to camp a specific area? Perhaps HS or Chardok I suppose but in general it was more fun and better AA/hr to pick a general part of the zone and farm the shit out of it. That was true in vanilla and it was true up to GoD at least (for the non-instanced shit) and frankly, I liked it better. I could jump in and play for an hour or two or I could join a group and stay for ten with new members as time went on. WoW's system means if you want to pug (and no, I don't for this reason amongst others) you will need to replace someone after the one-hour romp through who-the-hell-cares_001273.

Zerai · 05-19-2008, 05:34 PM

I played up to GoD and EQ was a hell of a lot larger time commitment than WoW ever was, especially now.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-19-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northerner

What do you mean really?

Minus the EQ fellatio that's exactly what he just said.

05-19-2008, 08:38 AM	#466 (permalink)
Sunder Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,180	YouTube - Molten Core version 2.0 (Blizzcon) Blizzard does listen. And this is what they think of your ideas. __________________ "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." --Mark Twain

05-19-2008, 09:39 AM	#467 (permalink)
Digits The good news is that you're still alive. The bad news is that that's the good news. Also, you have no legs. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 'Merica, land of the free. Posts: 1,222 +6 Internets	This whole debate about instance length really showcases one of the undeniable downfalls of instances: You either do the whole thing, or it's a waste of time. The best loot, usually the only stuff worthwhile too, comes from the final boss. If you don't have the time to get to him, or the capacity to kill him, you've officially wasted your time. By eliminating social dungeons, and especially by removing camps, developers have designed themselves into a corner. People don't like long instances, and they do genuinely blow after the first time, so they have to keep designing things shorter and simpler with better rewards. As developers strip themselves of options to design content, we players are even more stripped in options to enjoy the game. Blows all around. __________________ Hatcher Badlands Runepriest Your Favorite Folks

05-19-2008, 02:30 PM	#474 (permalink)
Mist Extremely Busy DPS Provider Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,389 -56 Internets	WoW could definitely benefit from some non instanced dungeon type areas, or at least high spawn density, enclosed spaces with elite mobs and better than normal rewards. __________________ Nyxs - Overgeared Rogue LFGuild.

05-19-2008, 03:42 PM	#476 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,268 +14 Internets	While less trash heavy dungeons are great in many cases, don't forget that pre-lvl cap they are avenues of XP. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

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05-19-2008, 10:57 AM	#469 (permalink)
GrobbeeTrull2.0 Proud Communist Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 2,346	I really think that WoW could benefit from EQ2's style of dungeons; a mix of public dungeon with place holders and spawns and whatnot, and then the "good loot" is instanced in short pocket zones that require 30-60 minutes of time. Named in the public dungeon part drop mostly rare loot, very rarely (but more often than normal world drop epics) epics. Spawn times about 5-7 minutes. Instances stay how they are.

05-19-2008, 11:11 AM	#470 (permalink)
kaid Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 162 +0 Internets	Honestly having done both eq2 instanced and non instanced dungeons and wow 5 and 10 man dungeons I think all instanced dungeons is better. We were working on the scantum of the scaleborn quests in eq2 and if I never step foot in that dungeon again it will be to soon. Because they can't let the place become a loot pinata you basically now are forced to run back and forth between a few rooms killing place holders until you want to shoot somebody. Then when you do get a boss its a simple tank and spank fight. After doing these simple tank and spank fights then doing the kael fight in Magisters terrace I would much rather have a simple hallway dungeon with fun fights than a non instanced dungeon with shit loads of trash to clear and boring bosses for mediocre if any loot.

05-19-2008, 02:30 PM	#473 (permalink)
Jabberwhacky Walker told me I have AIDS Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In da FACE!! (two times) Posts: 2,731	I think it's weird he made a "joke" of saying that "Only about 20 people got to kill Sapphiron." He and his boys at Blizz were the ones who decided on putting out TBC, raising the level cap, lowering the raid cap, and now sound almost annoyed that the content didn't get used. That's the impression I got, at least.

05-19-2008, 04:02 PM	#477 (permalink)
Zerai ~ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An Igloo Posts: 2,758 -9 Internets	In EQ, longer dungeons just meant more to invis through unless it was one of the few that was good xp in which case you killed when you got to your camp for AA.

05-19-2008, 05:34 PM	#479 (permalink)
Zerai ~ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An Igloo Posts: 2,758 -9 Internets	I played up to GoD and EQ was a hell of a lot larger time commitment than WoW ever was, especially now.