[WoW]Wotlk:Raid instances to have 10 and 25 man versions, Death Knight starts at 55

[Bixxby]

Except they aren't dungeons, they're linear hallways? That's the whole problem, the zones feel completely boring and dead. BRD was the best effort they put out and apparently those people aren't around anymore. A real dungeon is huge and has little short cuts and different paths to choose and all kinds of fun things that actually make you feel like you're playing a fucking RPG. The closest thing that came close in TBC was slave pens, and that was what, one jump in the whole zone you could skip 3 pulls with? Wow, impress me more, you sexy studs.


edit: @ Zerai, obviously.

[Havelock]

Originally Posted by Bixxby

Except they aren't dungeons, they're linear hallways? That's the whole problem, the zones feel completely boring and dead. BRD was the best effort they put out and apparently those people aren't around anymore. A real dungeon is huge and has little short cuts and different paths to choose and all kinds of fun things that actually make you feel like you're playing a fucking RPG. The closest thing that came close in TBC was slave pens, and that was what, one jump in the whole zone you could skip 3 pulls with? Wow, impress me more, you sexy studs.


edit: @ Zerai, obviously.

Kara?

[Dumar]

"i don't want to spend more than an hour in a dungeon."

what the fuck is this? seriously?

what the fuck does this even mean? do you even want to play the game? do you even want to play A game? if you don't want to spend ONE HOUR in a dungeon, then why did you login? if you're so pressed for time, then DO NOT PLAY. go play cell phone games if you have an hour or less. a dungeon crawl should be 2 hours minimum, with 3 being epic. the same fucking length of time as many movies.

what ol kaplan said in that interview makes me nauseous. the frozen moses should maybe put the waters back into the red sea. cos i don't wanna fucking follow him anymore if this is the kind of content that will be produced.

[Mist]

2-3 hours to run a shitty 5 man for crap loot and then have to run it over and over again for the right RNG to pop up is retarded. Of course people want longer content, thats what raids are for, but 5 man dungeon instances as they currently exist in WoW should not be more than an hour long, because if they're tuned at one hour that means two for your average PUG.

[Cad]

You guys crying that the dungeons or hallways or whatever are too short can die in a fire. You want a 2 hour experience, do 2 of them; having it broken up into 1 hour chunks is great.

[Sinter1]

Should be common ground to accomodate both audiences. That's what I'd prefer honestly. As long as the larger dungeons are enjoyable... no reason to not include them.

[spronk]

at some point a video game cant accomodate every single playstyle possible, blizzard does pretty extensive internal/external market research and clearly from tbc instances and wotlk interviews they aren't going to create any new 5 mans that are longer than 1 hour to clear. capslock rage all you want, not gonna change.

find a new game if thats your thing, and support the shit out of it in the hopes that it gets a ton of people so other devs perk up and pay attention.

Even the AOC instances are <1-hour and very linear (they are absolutely huge and kinda empty though).

[Zehn - Vhex]

Part of the problem is the mentality that if you don't finish a dungeon you've failed. I did plenty of BRD runs where we stopped after arglemech simply because I didn't have the time to finish. Same with UBRS. Tons of times we'd clear voone and then quit (mostly because back then those fucking spiders were bullshit but I digress).

So a 3-5 hour dungeon is fine so long as you put in natural end points. Strath was very good in this regard, in fact it's pure genius. You clear live side and then if you've got time, go do dead side. And even dead/live side had split paths you could take.

To put it in perspective, the TBC version of Strath would have had one entrance put you right at the start of the cathedral. The dead side would have put you right at the abom gate. Just get rid of the whole 'city' part that gave it character or otherwise made it interesting. 30 minute instances so we can rep for faction and last boss loot. Yay.

[Dumar]

why not 30min chunks then? what if an hour is too long? why dont we just instance boss mobs that drop purples. there you go, in 5min an item. no trash. let's cut it all out here. because if 2 hours is way too long, then many people will consider an hour too long.

maybe in the next expansion we'll have 5min dungeon. entrance>boss. how's that?

[TheYanger]

Because an hour is what they found the playerbase could best tolerate.
There ARE larger dungeons, they're the 10 mans. The fact that BC only had 2 of em doesn't mean that they're not there. And don't go 'oh 10 mans are raids they don't count' because raid or not it's TEN friggin people it's not that hard to get a few friends, UBRS was 10 man for christ's sake and that's one of the dungeons you throw around like it was the holy grail.

[Dumar]

i guarantee you 'market research' would establish that 45m dungeons are more popular than 1h. i guarantee you if the 'market analysts' were to decide, there would be 30m dungeons. the design decisions have become wholly business oriented.

hello electronic ar--err blizzard! or should i say activision blizzard, yup.

[Zest]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

To put it in perspective, the TBC version of Strath would have had one entrance put you right at the start of the cathedral. The dead side would have put you right at the abom gate. Just get rid of the whole 'city' part that gave it character or otherwise made it interesting. 30 minute instances so we can rep for faction and last boss loot. Yay.

TBC Strath would just be two instances. One would be dead side, and the other live side. You'd still have to clear the whole thing. You just wouldn't have that chunk in the middle that no one ever touched unless they got lost. Most people wouldn't even notice the difference.

Giant sprawling instances sound fun, but they're not. There's too much trash. It's why getting a Strath group was easy, but getting one for Scholo or BRD was hard. It's not even fun trash. It's the same packs of the same mobs over and over again. Boss Fights = Fun. Repetitive Trash = Not Fun.

[Bixxby]

Originally Posted by Zest

Giant sprawling instances sound fun, but they're not. There's too much trash. It's why getting a Strath group was easy, but getting one for Scholo or BRD was hard. It's not even fun trash. It's the same packs of the same mobs over and over again. Boss Fights = Fun. Repetitive Trash = Not Fun.

So improve the design while still keeping the same feeling? And ten man's are a raid, if you're not in a raid guild already that can support 25 man raiding finding another 3-4 people when you want to do something isn't a viable option because most players are shit.

[Mahes]

Originally Posted by Dumar

i guarantee you 'market research' would establish that 45m dungeons are more popular than 1h. i guarantee you if the 'market analysts' were to decide, there would be 30m dungeons. the design decisions have become wholly business oriented.

hello electronic ar--err blizzard! or should i say activision blizzard, yup.

I have to say that it is sad that no longer does the journey matter. The reason I like the big dungeons, is because it was a different kind of run each time. Oh sure, you might see it all after 20 times, but at least it was not as easily mapped out for a player.

I honestly do not run instances as much as I could in WoW. I find most of them to be fun one, maybe 2 times.

Blizzard is going to do whatever it takes to keep thier player base. To give you an idea of just how extreme this might get, there are some dev questions answered, that actually state that vendors will be put in just prior to the expansion that will "Sell" epic gear for gold.

The idea of a challenge is gone. This is not Everquest. Now if WoW actually had a strong PvP element to thier game, this would not be a real concern, but it really doesn't. Pray that EA/Mythic really are listening to thier player base in hopes of having a worthy contender.

[BurnemWizfyre]

I like the quickness of the new dungeons dont get me wrong, but i whole heartedly agree that i cant stand that most of that shit is 100% completely linear and not what a dungeon should be.

Of course ways to make it feel epic, and like a real dungeon does exist and the time it takes kept short. LESS TRASH, more options on which way to go, and something ive really missed, RARE SPAWNS IN DUNGEONS. Have the instance fork, so everything isnt a straight shot. Just lessen the density of trash so you dont spend forever clearing to that boss that doesnt have another boss directly behind it.

Add yet another fork that might or might not have that rare spawn up with maybe 1-2 trash packs blocking you (kudos to you if you have a rogue and he stealths to see if he is up). It can be done, they just need to actually try.