WOW, Season 4. Arena or GTFO

[Zest]

My ghetto SPriest/Hunter team is at 1700 on BG6.

Of the 28 games we played today, we faced 11 different teams. Seven of them were in full S3, two of them had one full S3 member, and only one team didn't have S3 weapons.

The most frustrating part for me isn't that those full S3 teams are fighting us at 1700s, it's that I don't know how they got that gear in the first place. Some of these teams are really really terrible and I don't understand how they managed to get that gear. We beat a full S3 MSWarrior/RDruid team that never went defensive or spell reflected... twice, and we beat a full S3 MMHunter/RDruid team that never used Viper Sting 2 out of 3. There was even a full S3 ShSRogue/DSDruid that was quite obviously keyboard turning around. Beating people in that gear is all well and good... but just leaves me asking, how the fuck did they get it?

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Niafix04

Yes. There are/were a number of ways to have an S3 weapon and be average or worse.

Maybe I'm not being clear.

1) I don't give up because I see S3 shoulders/weapons. I still actually try.

2) my scrub team means SCRUB. As in 3 pieces of S2 armor, 1 pc s1, a blue piece, maybe a ring or 2, and a S2 shield. No other resilience. 260 resilience on my scrub pally for example.

Why should someone who has clearly done something (either legitimate or otherwise) to get a piece of gear in the 1850/2k requirement range, ever be fighting said scrubs? Why? Give me one good fucking reason. There is none. The whole rating system is designed to fight players that are your caliber, not players who had a 2200 team last week and decided that they didn't like the name. This is a fucking problem, and dancing around the issue with bullshit semantics won't change it.

I've already stated it 100 times in this thread, but solve THAT problem and you make arena a lot more enjoyable for everyone involved.

[Niafix04]

Originally Posted by Zest

but just leaves me asking, how the fuck did they get it?

There was an exploit to increase your PR above your TR then have someone raise your TR up to the required rating so you could get shoulders/weapons. This was fixed, though.

Edit: added quote.

TheCutlery, the point is that some players who have s3 weapons/shoulders are not 1850/2k+ caliber players. In this case, they will stagnate in the lower ratings. Some high rated players do reroll teams, but they generally push through the lower ratings very quickly and you don't play them more than once or twice. Also, your mid 1500s scrub team isn't a scrub team because of your gear. I'm sorry.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Niafix04

TheCutlery, the point is that some players who have s3 weapons/shoulders are not 1850/2k+ caliber players. In this case, they will stagnate in the lower ratings. Some high rated players do reroll teams, but they generally push through the lower ratings very quickly and you don't play them more than once or twice. Also, your mid 1500s scrub team isn't a scrub team because of your gear. I'm sorry.

Some high rated players do reroll teams.

I will play them once or twice.

Multiply by every team that rerolls

Multiply by how many times they do it over the course of a week.

I'm sorry that you can't see a problem here. This is not an isolated problem. Quit pretending that this shit never happens.

Here, you "top PvPers" around here want something to gnaw on? Look at the Tournament realm rankings

The World of Warcraft Armory

Every one of those players thought it was worth MONEY to come play on that realm and every one is likely a fucking "Arena is ezmode, you can get 2k with any combo, hurr hurr" mouthbreather like yourself. Notice only 2 teams are currently capable of purchasing S3 shoulders, only 13 capable of getting weapons. Look at what happens when you don't include the scrubs in the process. No scrub wants to pay money to go play somewhere else. No scrub wants to play for no gear.

I guess rating IS subjective based upon where + when you queue, huh? Or are you saying that 99% of the people on the Tournament realm are fucking keyboard turning drooling retards like everyone else?

[The Ancient]

Right! The tournament realm is a perfect cross-section of the the general realm population on normal battlegroups!

Come on now, you are just making yourself look worse and worse. My 2.2k friends don't even put in serious effort with it anymore because as they put it "It's fun to play around with but it's mainly a waste of time unless you seriously think you can win it."

The point is you are on a normal realm and can't be assed to just partner with a druid and get your easy 1700 rating. There are plenty of problems with the system but your complaints highlight your biggest problem is you.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Right! The tournament realm is a perfect cross-section of the the general realm population on normal battlegroups!

Come on now, you are just making yourself look worse and worse. My 2.2k friends don't even put in serious effort with it anymore because as they put it "It's fun to play around with but it's mainly a waste of time unless you seriously think you can win it."

The point is you are on a normal realm and can't be assed to just partner with a druid and get your easy 1700 rating. There are plenty of problems with the system but your complaints highlight your biggest problem is you.

It's not supposed to be a cross section of the realm population! It's supposed to be the players at the top who all claim that if you can't get 1700, you're a scrub!

The point is that you just keep on missing several relevant issues, such as the reason this thread exists.

Do you think that the people who can't get anything other than gloves + offhand will keep playing in S4?

If they don't, what do you suppose will happen to the ratings across the board?

Use your fucking head instead of trying to argue minutiae.

[The Ancient]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

Do you think that the people who can't get anything other than gloves + offhand will keep playing in S4?

I don't think all players who "can't get" anything other than gloves + offhand are quite defeatist enough to throw their hands up in frustration and assume they are never going to get anything more than gloves + OH. What I see happening is a lot of players join the system, inteding to earn enough arena points to get just the pieces they are "limited" to and find that by the time they have those pieces they are close enough to the next limiting item that they think they can extend the effort for that.

I had friends who definately though 1850 was out of reach, but by the time the had about ~2-3 pieces of gear they were close to getting rating high enough for that weapon. Repeat the process for shoulders. Project this occurance onto the S4 system, and you see why there will still be plenty of people in the arena system.

I really just think you thought you would do better than you did, got frustrated and quit. Your experience isn't mirrored by everyone.

[Cuppycake]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

2) my scrub team means SCRUB. As in 3 pieces of S2 armor, 1 pc s1, a blue piece, maybe a ring or 2, and a S2 shield. No other resilience. 260 resilience on my scrub pally for example.

Wanna see scrubs? My boyfriend (warrior) and I played 10 games last week for the first time and lost all 10. We're still in greens and blues, no pvp gear whatsoever.

And my warrior was using a paladin mace with Int on it =) We are scrubs. I now have a couple pieces from Kara, but the rest of my shit is blue and green. I'm trying to do a ton of honor grinding to buy some S1/S2 gear. =)

[larseny316]

I play on 2 teams, which both bounce between 1550-1650 every night. I'm in mostly season2/season1 (banking arena points and honor at this point), as a resto sham. Warlock partner is full s2 with a couple s3, hunter is full s2/s1. The other day the warlock and I (at 1600 rating), ran into 11 straight warrior druid teams. We normally can beat the combo if they are similiarly geared, but most were sporting s3 shoulders. Last night we played a 3v3 team (rogue/priest/hunter) all sporting Illidin weapons 8 times in a row, even staggering our queue times. I even swapped to my PvE (t5/badge) gear and couldn't heal through the dps their rogue or hunter poured on our hunter (we kept the other dps feared).

Hell, 2 nights ago we faced a team that completely blew us up, and they took 1 point from us. Now I'm not opposed to learning and facing teams that destroy us and losing 1 point, but why were we even paired vs them? It just sucks whenever we face teams where we actually get to play, we win prob 3 out of 4 or better. Its the other half of the teams we face that outgear us to hell and back, that we can barely scratch and/or get dps down faster than I can heal.

[The Ancient]

For the record there:
1600 = hands, OH, ranged slot, chest, legs

That's 7000 Arena Points, 20 weeks at a conservative estimate. Scrubs won't exactly be fleeing the arena system the day it comes out.

Then if you are still somehow hovering at that same range after 20 weeks in the system, you've only got a meager 50 points til you can buy an honor ring and then only a meager 50 til you can get a headpiece, etc, etc, etc.

[Murr]

Originally Posted by Cuppycake

I'm trying to do a ton of honor grinding to buy some S1/S2 gear. =)

On a related note, how fast is honor grind these days? Like if I played 4-5 hours on a BG weekend, how much honor could I expect to generate?

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Murr

On a related note, how fast is honor grind these days? Like if I played 4-5 hours on a BG weekend, how much honor could I expect to generate?

That depends on a few variables. Does your battlegroup still PvE race in AV or do they stalemate in the middle until their resources are gone? Do you solo queue or go in with a group?

AV weekend I was getting around 800 honor per hour.
WSG I did premades and would get around 1k per hour unless we ran into another premade, in which it dropped to 0 per hour after the first 3 minutes.
AB was around 600 per hour.
EotS was about 500-600.

This was half a year ago. They changed diminishing returns but those numbers should give you a rough estimate.

[Niafix04]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

Here, you "top PvPers" around here want something to gnaw on? Look at the Tournament realm rankings

The World of Warcraft Armory

First of all, you're dumb for using the TR as a comparison to live considering there are 3x as many 3v3 teams playing on a live battle group compared to the TR. Obviously with less teams playing, the ratings will not have the larger spread that a live battlegroup has. Secondly, you're also dumb if you think that playing a few reroll teams a weak is holding you back from getting a higher rating.

There are people who had worse gear than you and were able to succeed in arenas. It just takes a few weeks to catch up/practice/learn/improve. Average players, like you, who whine instead of trying to practice/learn/improve will always be average. Average players who try and improve will be rewarded with more s4.

In closing, you're dumb and bad at pvp.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Murr

On a related note, how fast is honor grind these days? Like if I played 4-5 hours on a BG weekend, how much honor could I expect to generate?

I get about 2k a night in about 2-3 hours of just slumming it around in AB/WSG/EOTS on my warlock alt. Not really trying since I'm usually raiding so I get auto-afk'd out on occasion.

If you actually tried you could probably pull quite a bit. No dimi returns on kills now and the daily is a quick 500 honor. If you queue with a solid PvE/PvP mix group of 5 for AV you can make some pretty ridiculous returns as well.

Honestly, honor is not really the issue. Everytime I've bought something it's taken me longer to get the 30 eots or AB tokens then it has to get the honor.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Niafix04

First of all, you're dumb for using the TR as a comparison to live considering there are 3x as many 3v3 teams playing on a live battle group compared to the TR. Obviously with less teams playing, the ratings will not have the larger spread that a live battlegroup has. Secondly, you're also dumb if you think that playing a few reroll teams a weak is holding you back from getting a higher rating.

There are people who had worse gear than you and were able to succeed in arenas. It just takes a few weeks to catch up/practice/learn/improve. Average players, like you, who whine instead of trying to practice/learn/improve will always be average. Average players who try and improve will be rewarded with more s4.

In closing, you're dumb and bad at pvp.

Average players with a druid or warlock on their team you mean.