WOW, Season 4. Arena or GTFO

[column]

Originally Posted by Zerai

Thats why I said 1700-1800. And then we lose 18 points to them. Or Win 14.

Well duh, of course you are going to find full S3 teams from 1700 on up. Whats the problem with that again? Should those arena players just quit once they get shoulders?

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by column

Well duh, of course you are going to find full S3 teams from 1700 on up. Whats the problem with that again? Should those arena players just quit once they get shoulders?

You tell me what reason a team who has a 2k item EVER needs to be playing at 1700. Tell me one. They made a new team? Should keep their PR and start right out where they left off. There is no fucking reason that people who are trying to get to 1850 for weapons should have to start facing fuckers with shoulders at 1600.

[column]

So if PR is constant,would that solve all this? But what about the massive amount of ebay acounts that would flood the 2k bracket and ruin it for alot of the true pvp'ers that want to compete in the arena (On MMOBAY right now theres at least 25 per class with full S3 for sale). Should they all just pony up 20+ dollars to go play on the Arena realm?

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by Zest

I really don't have a problem with the rating requirements, so long as people that don't belong in that bracket won't be playing in it. In my 3v3, I don't care that I face people in full S3. They should have it. But at 1700 in my 2v2, why are the majority of the teams I'm facing wearing items with ratings they're not reaching?

But if you are 2k in 3v3, aren't you wearing full S3 in your 1700 2v2? So are you bitching about playing teams... Like you?

Strip the gear requirements so we can continue bitching about welfare epics instead of bitching about fighting people that have shoulders with 3 more +healing, 2 more sta and 3 more res.

[Auro]

I'm writing 1 quick paragraph to qualify why I'm a perfect example of this situation and a 2nd paragraph to state that everyone complaining about this is simply a whiner, or bad at PvP or both.



Let me weigh in as a typical example. I am a talented PvPer who retired as a Duelist at the end of Season 1 at 1984 rating, didn'y play season 2 at all. I'm wearing season 2 gear now and play a Rogue with the season 3 honor gear. I play Flavor Of The Month Mage/Rogue and we started our team last week. At this time we are 1750 and playing in this "phantom bracket" that so many posters in this thread are complaining about. My armory is here to show what I wear.

The World of Warcraft Armory

The teams we run into are in the vast majority wearing a mix of season 1, season 2 and some season 3 pieces. In 50 games I have not had to fight a single warglaive rogue, I've fought less than 10 teams with season 3 weapons and there were only 2 games where when my team lost we felt as if we couldn't beat the other team. So guess what we did in those cases? QUEUE DODGE. It's simple strategy, and the players not having success in the Arena may not be terrible. But not grasping the most basic concepts of maximizing your advantages and minimizing disadvantage in something as basic as match-ups is why it's so easy to dismiss those who are complaining's arguments. I have no doubts at all I'll make it to 1850 this weekend.

To succeed at 1750+ you've got to perservere, set goals, analyze your victories and defeats after each match and put forth a ton of effort. It's pretty easy to see how many of the players complaining in this thread just coast through their 10 games a week and expect the handout.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by column

So if PR is constant,would that solve all this? But what about the massive amount of ebay acounts that would flood the 2k bracket and ruin it for alot of the true pvp'ers that want to compete in the arena (On MMOBAY right now theres at least 25 per class with full S3 for sale). Should they all just pony up 20+ dollars to go play on the Arena realm?

A problem WITHIN the system is > a problem OUTSIDE the system.

The system is flawed on the inside. There are ways in which a 2k+ rated player can sit around curbstomping 1500's all day, and all week. This is equivilent to the douchebags who sit at Tarren Mill all fucking day, ever day. This creates a situation where it lowers the morale of people who actually do want to participate, but aren't going to queue up simply to get their skulls kicked in every day by players obviously much better than them.

A problem outside of the system, such as EBay is never going to be as big of a problem. Anyone who's not a 2k caliber player buying a toon isn't going to be 2k for very long, he'll tank it back down to his natural rating and that will be the end of whatever money he spent on that account. I have a real hard time believing that people buy WoW accounts for the express purpose of losing games in the 2200 bracket for 3 weeks until they get back to 1500.

Look thru this thread dude. There are many, many people, on many, many battlegroups who all say that this is fucking retarded, and happens to them on a daily basis. Whether it be point selling, PR selling, boosting a buddy, don't like the team name, 2 teams deciding to swap partners for the week, whatever...the end result is that there are A LOT of players playing at ratings they should never be playing at.

Look, a few weeks ago I was still helping my buddy gear up his druid in the arena. We'd play 20-30 games a week or so, running 1550-1650. The difference is completely night and day vs the teams we'd face at the higher end of where we hovered vs the lower end. At the higher end, it's all guys in S3 shoulders with S3 weapons just mulching up a druid who isn't even in 5/5 gladiator shit yet. At the low end, it's complete bullshit teams like Holy Pally/Feral druid, just jokes of teams that we could beat blindfolded. Where is my true team rating supposed to be? Obviously above the joke teams, I'd say quite a bit above them, but clearly we're below the people with S3 weapons/Shoulders. So how come we can't get S3 weapons/shoulders like the guys who beat us? How come we have to push thru 200 rating of their bullshit before we earn the right to wear what they're wearing? How does that make sense in any world?

If you want to make a competitive environment out of it, remove the ways that people can bottomfeed off the system and make it so people play people who ARE TRUE COMPETITION FOR THEM. Not scrubs on one end and then fucking 2k teams on the other end.

[TheCutlery]

Originally Posted by Auro

. So guess what we did in those cases? QUEUE DODGE.

Lol, so to win, you need to just game the system to play at preferential times instead of actually fixing the system so that you don't HAVE to game the system. Beautiful. So play at 3am during the week and you can be a gladiator too! Gotta love the simplicity of it.

Shut up.

[column]

A problem outside of the system, such as EBay is never going to be as big of a problem. Anyone who's not a 2k caliber player buying a toon isn't going to be 2k for very long, he'll tank it back down to his natural rating and that will be the end of whatever money he spent on that account. I have a real hard time believing that people buy WoW accounts for the express purpose of losing games in the 2200 bracket for 3 weeks until they get back to 1500.

I don't get this...you just said earlier that you wanted PR/TR to be constant. So in that case they would never tank back to under what they purchased.

Everyone knows theres problems with arena,and Blizzard doesn't want to fix it.
It does still allow very good PVP players to suceed tho.

Not all full S3 teams are awesome,lot of these people didn't even get the gear in a legit fashion due to the current system.



If it was me I would allow everyone to have full S3 at like 1600 and you can not go under 1500 ( if you can not make 100 points,then you just suck I'm sorry).Once you get 1600 then it doesnt matter what rateing you get you can still buy all the S3,and you can not compete under 1600. People will still need to aquire arena points tho,so it will still take them around a month to get all the points. Then make the Arena ladder for xbox360 like achievements like custom titles,mounts etc etc.

This will stop the griefers,because they will only play other s3 people. This will stop the PR/TR,because noone is going to pay 1k + gold for a title or a stupid mount.

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Auro

I'm writing 1 quick paragraph to qualify why I'm a perfect example of this situation and a 2nd paragraph to state that everyone complaining about this is simply a whiner, or bad at PvP or both.



Let me weigh in as a typical example. I am a talented PvPer who retired as a Duelist at the end of Season 1 at 1984 rating, didn'y play season 2 at all. I'm wearing season 2 gear now and play a Rogue with the season 3 honor gear. I play Flavor Of The Month Mage/Rogue and we started our team last week. At this time we are 1750 and playing in this "phantom bracket" that so many posters in this thread are complaining about. My armory is here to show what I wear.

The World of Warcraft Armory

The teams we run into are in the vast majority wearing a mix of season 1, season 2 and some season 3 pieces. In 50 games I have not had to fight a single warglaive rogue, I've fought less than 10 teams with season 3 weapons and there were only 2 games where when my team lost we felt as if we couldn't beat the other team. So guess what we did in those cases? QUEUE DODGE. It's simple strategy, and the players not having success in the Arena may not be terrible. But not grasping the most basic concepts of maximizing your advantages and minimizing disadvantage in something as basic as match-ups is why it's so easy to dismiss those who are complaining's arguments. I have no doubts at all I'll make it to 1850 this weekend.

To succeed at 1750+ you've got to perservere, set goals, analyze your victories and defeats after each match and put forth a ton of effort. It's pretty easy to see how many of the players complaining in this thread just coast through their 10 games a week and expect the handout.

I'm on vengeance and I see S3 weapons constantly. When do you play normally?

[Zierain]

Originally Posted by column

I don't get this...you just said earlier that you wanted PR/TR to be constant. So in that case they would never tank back to under what they purchased.

I think, when he said constant, he meant if you swapped to a new team, your PR doesnt reset to 1500 from 2200 or 2000. If you lose your games, fine and dandy. Go from 2000 personal to 1500 personal from loses. That person SHOULD be in the 1500 bracket, he just doesnt deserve his gear.

If they have the skill to maintain 2000 rating, well, all the more power too em. But I really doubt an Ebayer would be able too. Spend 15$ and do it urself.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by column

So if PR is constant,would that solve all this? But what about the massive amount of ebay acounts that would flood the 2k bracket and ruin it for alot of the true pvp'ers that want to compete in the arena (On MMOBAY right now theres at least 25 per class with full S3 for sale). Should they all just pony up 20+ dollars to go play on the Arena realm?

How do the terribads bleeding 700 points back into the system make it bad for people? The fault lies with the people who raced those teams to 2.2k in the first place, taking 700 points away from people.

Having your PR kept static per bracket and having the higher of your PR and TR matter for match ups instead of lower basically solves 95% of the problem.

Originally Posted by Auro

I've fought less than 10 teams with season 3 weapons and there were only 2 games where when my team lost we felt as if we couldn't beat the other team. So guess what we did in those cases? QUEUE DODGE.

We both know 10 games out of 50 for weapons is a blatant lie, but let's roll with it. That's 1 out of 5 games (2 games a week) where someone is forced to fight someone with an item that requires a rating 200-350 points higher than the rating of the game they're in. If you do not see this as a problem, no words will help solve your problem. There should be 0 s3 weapons (1850 req) prior to 1750 rated games and only then slowly increase until 1850. There should be 0 s3 shoulders (2000 req) prior to any 1900 rated game. These are not things that you can debate the merits of.

No 2100 chess player is ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever pitted against a 1650 player in a serious tournament. EVER. This ELO system should be no exception.

Then you actually advocate circumventing the system itself as if it were some natural, obvious thing. "Dude so what if he has a s3 weapon, just wait 30 minutes and then re-queue. Making it someone else's problem means it's no longer important!"

It's pretty easy to see how many of the players complaining in this thread just coast through their 10 games a week and expect the handout.

Considering it takes about 1-2 months per item for the type of people we're talking about .... yes it should be handed out. Like it or not, alot of people in this game gage their fun through item acquisition and if you make the items impossible or difficult/length to obtain then guess what, retention rates drop which trickles down and repeats the process. Having pvp gear means absolutely nothing anymore. Feeling threatened because someone has full purples but still sucks is so ridiculously juvenile. It might have used to mean something when items were actually difficult to acquire but when every single person has nearly identical gear, telling the people who can't get those items to fuck off is just stupid.

[kohl]

I joined up with a RMP 3v3 recently. They had already played some games and gotten the team up to 1700 or so. We played about 15 games two nights ago. Of those teams, most of them had at least 1 person w/ shoulders. We also faced 2 teams with full S3.

Here is my issue with the ladder system. The entire point of the system is that you segment out the skill level of players, and you place rating requirements on gear in such a way that you have to be XX skilled in order to get that gear.

If you can have people slumming at ratings far below what they are capable of, then the system fails. You simply should not be facing 2k geared teams at 1600.

Blizzard needs to either take a hard look at some kind of persistent personal rating system, or just fucking take the rating requirement off items completely. It's a complete joke right now.

[Antoine]

The small difference in gear is really not that important enough that a few people with s3 weapons in the 1700 bracket is a big deal. I'm no hardcore pvper myself (I don't actually have the s3 shoulders in my sig). I got carried by a couple different healers to 1900 so I could buy my weapon for pve. Now, playing for fun with some random people, I hang out at 1700ish. I see people with a mix of s3 and s1, I see people with full s3, and I've beaten people in full s3 and lost to people in s1/blues. In arena the gear differential between seasons is really not significant enough to make up for the amount of mistakes an inferior player will make.

[kohl]

I agree with you that the diff. between S2 and S3 in most cases is trivial. That really isn't the point. I certainly don't think that S3 players are beating people because they have a huge gear advantage. It is the fact that players with a skill/co-ordination level of 2k+ should not be down in the 1600's.

I don't get paid to sit around all day dreaming up ways to fix the problem; that is the job of the Bliz devs. Just as an example though, they could put in a system where once you hit a certain rating 'checkpoint' (1850, 2k, 2200, etc) you are locked into the bracket and can only go up from there.

[Lejina Bloodbath]

I can't believe someone suggested queue dogding and in the same breath said the system was fine.

The system is fine because some people exploit it by pick and chosing the teams they face (and so can you!), thus avoiding the nonsense of teams fighting in the wrong brackets. That's just perfectly logical.

Wat?