WOW, Season 4. Arena or GTFO

[Clug]

Anyone else have like no interest in S4? I have full S3 and I can honestly say S4 doesn't really interest me.

The new ratings on everything from BG gear on up just seems retarded even though I can get it all again I am not sure I will bother.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by column

Those numbers don't show the truth IMHO.

How many of those are boxed accounts? How many are afkers? how many are people that lose on purpose?How many are pvp account sellers , how many of those are people curious about the arena and try it out for a couple games then quit etc etc..

Anyone who has played Arena even passively knows that 1700 is extremely easy to reach.

Do you not understand basic math?

[Presarc]

I don't know column, I have IRL friends that have literally played MONTHS with the sole intention of hitting 1700, and just can't do it.

Yes, it is because they're bad, and no, there's nothing I can say that will make them stop clicking, turn-keying, and getting pissed easily (which each individually would lower your maximum rating by 200 points, and all 3 -- do the math! :P). Some people just suck at the game. Period.

[The Ancient]

That isn't to say it's problematic that those players don't get the best PvP gear in the game.

[Aria]

I barely hit 1700 with my buddy. It's not extremely easy for everyone. I feel I am a great mage, but finding an ideal partner with an ideal spec sometimes isn't as easy as it is for others. Me and a feral druid scrubbed it up to 1700 with not great gear and got stuck there.. but it worked to help us get our S3 pieces.

[Jubee]

Originally Posted by The Ancient

That isn't to say it's problematic that those players don't get the best PvP gear in the game.

Why is that? Almost all of the games that are universally accepted as having "better" pvp than WoW generally don't have a gear gap. Especially not one as large as WoWs. The difference between a S2 geared character and S4, especially a melee, is night and day. While I could see why the best pve gear shouldn't be in the hands of poor raiders, I still don't see why below average pvpers shouldn't eventually be able to get the best gear.

Anybody that arena'd seriously knows exactly what is going to happen this season. The general populous (those aforementioned people that can't get 1700) will buy their gloves and offhand and then quit. Then the 1700 players won't have any fodder and they'll quit as well. The only people that will be able to reach those top levels will be the current point seller/win traders. The world pvp objectives are proof that without a carrot that the system will crumble. I've been over 2k+ in all 3 brackets but I won't be putting forth any effort into s4. I'm sure there are more than a few like me.

[The Ancient]

Because WoW is still a PvE game. You have to have some ability to get the best PvE gear in the game and it's rediculous for PvP louses to just AFK their way to their respective top gear.

Yeah, yeah. The system will crumble GLOOM AND DOOM. No, not really though, the people who still care about competitive PvP will all still be there. My prediction is better than yours.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by column

Those numbers don't show the truth IMHO.

How many of those are boxed accounts? How many are afkers? how many are people that lose on purpose?How many are pvp account sellers , how many of those are people curious about the arena and try it out for a couple games then quit etc etc..

Anyone who has played Arena even passively knows that 1700 is extremely easy to reach.

What universe do you live in?

Ask yourself this, which is more common:
a) A team > 1500 disbanding and restarting at 1500
b) A team < 1500 disbanding and restarting at 1500

a) Someone who's team rating is noticeably (100+) higher than his personal rating
b) Someone who's personal rating is noticeably (100+) higher than his team rating

a) Someone < 1600 wearing many/all pieces of s3
b) Someone > 1600 wearing few/no pieces of s3

Earth to Captain Clueless: arena is flooded at the lower levels for any of a dozen reasons (point sellers, pr sellers, griefers, a friend being powerleveled). No one remakes a sub-1500 team just to reset their rating except the astronomically few people who buy new teams each week with the intention of losing 10 games. But let's for the time being put aside all of the ridiculous exploits/morally questionably behavior that occurs as a result of a pitifully implemented ELO system.

Let's focus on the very simple fact that the average rating of ALL ARENA PLAYERS is 1500. Inactivity and team disbands can throw this number off a bit but due to the effects described above, if anything the average would be lower (2k players playing as 1500 players whereas not a single 1500 player plays as 2000, etc). The sheer math and frankly the ENTIRE POINT of an elo system is that is is somewhat logarithmic. Going from 1500 to 1550 isn't too bad but 1550 to 1600 is noticeably harder. 1600 to 1650 is harder still, etc. I frankly have no desire to look up the exact numbers as I'm about to duck out of work 30 min early .. but you can bet your ass 80+% of the player base is under 1700. Including all the sellers, etc it wouldn't surprise me to find out that's 90%. I face at least 3-4 full s3 rerolls every week in the 1500s.

They are designing it specifically so << 1% of the playerbase will ever see s4 shoulders (I'd honestly argue more will have KJ loot by xpac than have s4 shoulders), maybe 5% will have s4 weapons (very generous imo), ~15% will have s4 helm, etc. Even just requiring a 1550 rating (just 50 more than what you start at) will lock out at least 50% of the playerbase unless they manage to remake a 1500 and go up 50 rating in 1 week.

The real punchline to all this, is as astronomically stupid as it is to apply rating req's to 2/3rds of the gear, that it has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with s4's launch date. Restricting s4 acquisition is a reason FOR launching it early/on time, not against.

Wanna stand on your soap box and yell shitty players like me shouldn't get our welfare epics until you're blue in the face? Go right ahead. Blizzard is certainly dumb enough to listen to dumb fuck whiners like you who seem to actually think that today's pvp environment is somehow "deserving" of anything. It is nothing but an item acquisition path. To paraphrase a great man on an even greater show (Penn from Bullshit) "You can say today's wow pvp has equal amounts of skill, balance, and pizza."

[Froofy-D]

If those ratings requirements are getting you down because your team sucks, consider 5-boxing a Pally and 4 Shaman to 2200+ like this guy.

[r3probate]

He didn't play the pally himself, at least, when I ran into him. I used to see him around before he transferred to BG9 and thought "how absurd, FOUR SHAMAN". Glad I didn't play 5v5 then, getting melted by that would be worth of a rage quit.

[column]

Yeah I don't know..I'm pretty good at PVP in wow..so to me I could pretty much be half asleep and still get 1700 /shrug. To me 1700 is where all the average players are,but if you say the numbers are much lower I'll take your word for it.

The teams I run into on the way to 1700 are 2 boxers,terrible combos,terrible gear,retards etc etc.

After 1700 the teams show abit of skill,but not really into the 1800's do you get decent teams as it stands now for me anyway.

I can't see it from the unskilled players side, so its hard to see what there whining about other then the team exploits because of the way the rateing system works. To me if you can't at least get a 1700 rating you have no business even bothering with PVP to begin with...but thats just me.



I agree that rateing system is out of wack,I'm not sure if they will ever fix it tho.

[Goliath]

Somebody want to explain the 5boxing shaman/paladin guy?

[Mageling]

I'm currently playing with a guy who 4 boxes Shaman and are in mostly S1 and a few pieces of S2 and my Pally who is mostly in T4 and a couple pieces of PvP gear as well and we have found it pretty damn hard to break out of the 1500-1550 range due to how many teams we see that are rerollers in S3. It's irritating as shit, since we just wanted to hit a decent rating, but are a bit bufu'd when we're up against multiple people on a team with their S3 shoulders.

[Makata]

Originally Posted by column

Yeah I don't know..I'm pretty good at PVP in wow..so to me I could pretty much be half asleep and still get 1700 /shrug. To me 1700 is where all the average players are,but if you say the numbers are much lower I'll take your word for it.

The teams I run into on the way to 1700 are 2 boxers,terrible combos,terrible gear,retards etc etc.

You're using a completely different definition of average.

When we say the average player is at 1500, that means if you total up all X players, add their ratings together, then divide by X, that number would be roughly 1500. YOU on the other hand are saying the players of average skill are in the 1700s which for all intents and purposes is probably accurate since there are far more shitty people than good people. But that is irrelevant. You could make the statement that 99 out of every 100 arena players literally do nothing but run in circles auto-attacking while drooling into a cup .. and it won't matter: that's still 99% of the player base. Saying that because they're shitty they shouldn't get loot sounds fine on paper but is terrible from both a realistic perspective and as a business model. That's 99% of their income they are telling to fuck off. No sir. As much as I personally liked the r14 system, it made sense to me why they switched. Only hardcore losers like me stood a chance in it.

I can't see it from the unskilled players side, so its hard to see what there whining about other then the team exploits because of the way the rateing system works. To me if you can't at least get a 1700 rating you have no business even bothering with PVP to begin with...but thats just me.

To so cavalierly dismiss the exploitive nature of ratings as a legitimate cause of frustration makes no sense. Point and rating sellers can easily drop the average rating 100 points or more not to mention the indirect effects such as severely pissing people off and causing some to not even bother.

And again, you're mixing average skill with average rating. It really doesn't matter if the system actually divides all crappy players (lets say 85%) under 1700 and the decent ones above it. You miss the fundamental flaw that it will cause that split REGARDLESS. If every wow pvp'er was a deep blue ai or a toddler slamming the keyboard, the same percentage of players will be locked out from rewards. If all pve players played perfectly, then every level 70 player could see kiljaeden's corpse by this weekend; but it is physically impossible for all arena players (fuck .. it's impossible for even more than just a HANDFUL) to see the last couple s4 items. That is the mathematical problem.

You can't just assume someone with half a brain gets 1700. Because what if the entire player base were good? You'd still have "good" players at 1300 because it's an ELO system.

[Wodin]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Somebody want to explain the 5boxing shaman/paladin guy?

Think Sam Deathwalker with $20k of modern technology and an ego to match. You can do a search for Aelli in Gameriot's blogs if you'd like to see him bragging about it.