WOW, Season 4. Arena or GTFO

[column]

Can I say all of the above? lol...

I'm currently on Quel dorei which seems allright I guess,but people seem to badmouth it in chat so I guess I am on a bad server /shrug

[Zhakran]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

How about we just remove teams entirely.

You go queue and it inserts whoever you group is in. Team rating does not exist, only personal rating. You face opponents near of your team's average and point gain and point loss are calculated individually.

Resetting your rating is not possible. There is a point minimum that will be earned regardless of how low your points go. It would be just a bit lower than what you can get if you make a new team and lose ten matches per week now.

What's the matter with this exactly? I could see this being a lot more enjoyable than the current confusing system.

Not being able to reset your personal rating is important. If you want it to be higher, then just win more with your team, period. So what if your team doesnt have a Name, it's not really important.

Just have a 2v2 rating, 3v3 rating, and 5v5 rating, everything based on your rating. And if you get some benefit from having friends, or "employees" with higher ratings to help you raise yours a little bit(they can't raise it all the way up there, because it's based on the average, and presumably they'll lose at their true ratings), then so what. Still won't be able to exploit for the 2050 required shit.

[spronk]

the answer is always the same for "wut servers the best" - if you really, really like pvp make sure your on a bg9 pvp server (from the list in the next step). go to WowJutsu: Site Temporarily Down for Maintenance, go to us or eu realms, rank sort the servers, and pick one of the top 15 and you'll be fine. you can use wowprogress.com too probably. Any of the top 15 will have tons of Sunwell 4/6 guilds, tons of BT guilds, tons and tons of 10 and 25 man pugs, a great economy, point sellers (well pre 2.4.2 anyways), and daily heroic/kara/ZA pugs.

[Maleficence]

What's wrong with just instituting Personal Ranking by team type?

That is you have a personal arena rating for 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5. Then the team rating is the average of the team's players personal rating.

You recreate a team and you don't have the rating reset. Adding someone lowers the team, which is in accordance with 2.4.1. And you can suck at 2v2 but still dominate at 3v3.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Better yet, we remove rewards from arena and let it be the dueling dick wag content that it is and just put all the loot back on the honor system. Make BG's not suck complete ass and let the pvpers and cusual fucks roll around in their welfare epix?

[Kheldin]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Better yet, we remove rewards from arena and let it be the dueling dick wag content that it is and just put all the loot back on the honor system. Make BG's not suck complete ass and let the pvpers and cusual fucks roll around in their welfare epix?

Shhhh...stop being logical. Blizzard doesn't like that. :P

[Mippo]

I'm gonna be trying out Age of Conan for a bit. This patch just takes the cake. Normally what I do to get my alts points is I just buy a 5v5, and log them all in and go 0-3, then recruit a team in chat and play the other 7 games so they all get points. So I go 0-3, rating drops to 1455. I get 4 randoms from chat and queue up, first game we get paired up against a 1940 rated 5v5, all full vengeful.

Next game we get paired up against a 2300 rated full gladiator 5v5 team. We ended up losing 0 rating change, and I've never seen that before so I had to screenshot it. I've seen it where the game never counted, but this game counted, we got the loss and the rating change was 0.

1455 rated team gets paired against a 2300 rated team......

I'm also kind of tired of this whole rock paper scissors system. If you don't play the cookie cutter combo's you are screwed. Sure you can get somewhat decent ratings, but it's nearly impossible to be competitive at higher ratings. So what happens when your friend plays a class that doesn't go well with yours? Sorry I can't do arena with you.

Then it's nice when you auto lose to certain teams because their combo just has your number and there is nothing you can do about it. That's always fun. Then there is the element of luck, with the combat being so fast-paced that a lucky crit / resist can mean the difference between winning and losing.

I haven't looked into Age of Conan much but all my friends picked it up so gonna be trying that out for a bit and hoping that the pvp in Conan is worth it so I can just not return to WoW.

[Dumar]

the problem is the blizzard pvp designers are inept and stupid. seriously, they're inept and stupid. i'm not insulting them, but they lack the knowledge and foresight to do their jobs.

a rock scissor paper system is fine. it's what most every class based game uses. pvp in this system is also okay as long as you have mitigating variables that cannot be accounted for.

you need unknown factors that cannot be accounted for in a rock paper scissor pvp system. you cannot put pvp in a purely, utterly controlled environment with this system. if i play a certain class, then when i'm matched up against a certain other, assuming it plays well, then i have absolutely no chance to win BECAUSE there are no mitigating factors to smooth the balance curve.

this type of system demands world pvp. a controlled arena pvp system in purely class based game reeks of stupidity and ineptitude, which blizzard seems to have plenty of.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Well, depends. Relying on luck is fine if you allow for shit to be unbalanced in the first place. Luck allows that team that would normally lose 10 out of 10 games to win 1.

On the other hand, in a magical perfectly balanced game environment, luck would not enhance things. You could make the semantic argument that your opponant fucking up before you do is a matter of luck, but I don't think adding a random element to a game like chess or counter-strike or any other 'balanced' game would be heralded as a welcome change.

Look at how much distaste there is over critical hits in team fortress 2, so much so that many servers now have them turned off.

It's a slippery slope. It's ultimately a matter of how you want your victory. Do you want it because the other guy fucked up or because you got lucky?

The class imbalance is the biggest problem right now honestly and there's very little Vera...Blizzard can do about it. The job for all it's virtues will never be implemented because it would offend too many sandy vagina's. And since Blizzard is catering to the retards when it comes to PvP fuck it...let's everyone reroll a druid or warlock and call it a day.

[Dumar]

but that's the whole point of pap,rock,scissor. it's NOT balanced class1vsclass2. balanced is achieved in the whole design. that is, it would be achieved if every class in the game lined up vs every other class in the game.

in a controlled 2v2 game, there is no balance to speak of. nor can there be in a class pap,rock,sciss system. that's why arenas with respect to the wow model are dumb, and it certainly shows lack of foresight.

the only way to mitigate this is to introduce uncontrolled variables that can either be a taken advantage of or hinders, not necessarily luck (but sometimes luck). this is the only way to achieve 'balance' in a system such as this.

this is why uo worked so well. every single person was sort of a mitigated smoother of the balance curve. in wow, it's too discrete to do that. that is, you know exactly what you're going up against every single time. and moreover, you know every single possible thing that can happen because of the controlled environment. balance can never be achieved here. it will always be this class A trumps class B, assuming both play well.

this is why arenas are stupid, and the wow designers show their ineptitude here.

[Chanur]

For me Arena's are the worst thing to happen to WoW. They are horribly broken, and they have pretty much given up on any other pvp because of them. I too will be trying AoC. I canceled both my WoW accounts this last week.

[Saban]

Pretty much any time i see a druid in arena i basically don't even want to play anymore.

[BurnemWizfyre]

You want skill to actually matter in WoW arena, for things to be fair and skill be the deciding factor? The only way i can see that ever happening is if they deleted 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 and implemented ONLY 9v9 (10v10 for WoTLK) no talents, yes thats right no talents, and the que matches you based on gear you have on/bags/bank. If you find a way other then that to actually make the arena require skill to win and not be decided by class make up then let me know cause thats the only way i see SKILL being the determing factor.

[Zest]

Originally Posted by Saban

Pretty much any time i see a druid in arena i basically don't even want to play anymore.

This was me. Now we play double DPS 2v2 and it's so much more fun. Gibbing a Warrior while the Druid does everything he can do makes me feel happy in the pants.

[Erumaron]

I just read a lot of talk about rock-paper-scissors a page or two back and kinda started thinking. The failed implementation in WoW is that they chose to make classes the rock, the paper, and the scissor. In a proper set up wouldn't each individual class have the full set of counters (rock-paper-scissor). I would be willing to bet that the balance at 80 incorporates this..Blizzard has said some things that suggest they're doin some significant balancing tweaks in the interviews and the likes about lich king.