[WOW] Glider author lawsuit

[Roa]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

And the Glider author does not have to accept the EULA to have created the bot. He is not bound by the EULA. The people using the bot are. I can write a program for windows without ever having used a windows operating system. The documentation required exists.

You do realize he admits to testing Glider on live servers on his own website, as well as using game updates to figure out how to modify Glider to not be detected by newer version of Warden, right?

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Roa

You do realize he admits to testing Glider on live servers on his own website, as well as using game updates to figure out how to modify Glider to not be detected by newer version of Warden, right?

I could post on websites all day that I stole from a bank, robbed a liquor store, and murdered a Chinese family, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that I did. It isn't conclusive evidence. He could just say that a) He was bragging, or b) That he was referring to compatriots of his doing the testing, etc.

[Aetos]

A lot of you seem to be missing that these are just claims and nothing else.

And there hasn't been a launchpad for months now. I'm told that you just load wow yourself and it will automatically attach and detach itself.

I can imagine this is going to be one of those cases where MDY runs out of resources and blizzard wins or something. As much as I wish that won't happen because what is the point of this case even? It's not going to stop botters. The only thing it would do is make MDY's product free, if they choose to continue distributing it.

And can they play the donation's argument?

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

The LaunchPad, however, launches WoW. It doesn;t just simply load the program into the RAM. The reason WoW gets loaded into the RAM is because WoW is being run - LaunchPad itself did not load it. The WoW process did.

Blizzard is banking on the judge being unable to distinguish the difference. If he can, then Blizzard will have won a victory that they shouldn't have, and properly fucked the computer development community. If the judge can, however, they will lose, just like they should.

What you failed to acknowledge, is that the glider launchpad is what initiates the entire process. There is no "difference" to distinguish.

Originally Posted by Roa

You do realize he admits to testing Glider on live servers on his own website, as well as using game updates to figure out how to modify Glider to not be detected by newer version of Warden, right?

Exactly. And hes openly admitted the same in documentation submitted to the court. Blizzard is claiming that they're combined losses/incurred expenses amount in excess of $18million/year. The first glider key was sold on his website in June of 2005.

Originally Posted by TKarrde

I could post on websites all day that I stole from a bank, robbed a liquor store, and murdered a Chinese family, but it wouldn't necessarily mean that I did. It isn't conclusive evidence. He could just say that a) He was bragging, or b) That he was referring to compatriots of his doing the testing, etc.

He admitted the same in court documentation. Try reading it.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Rayne

What you failed to acknowledge, is that the glider launchpad is what initiates the entire process. There is no "difference" to distinguish.

Uh, yes there is. Otherwise if I made a shortcut to the WoW.exe, I would be committing copyright infringement. Or if I made a batch file that turns off a bunch of windows services, and also launched WoW. Both of those are user created things that "initiate the entire process". That doesn't mean anything. At all.

Exactly. And hes openly admitted the same in documentation submitted to the court. Blizzard is claiming that they're combined losses/incurred expenses amount in excess of $18million/year. The first glider key was sold on his website in June of 2005.



He admitted the same in court documentation. Try reading it.

So worst case there, he's ordered to cease and desist. At this point, he starts using clean room reverse engineering. Makes development take longer, but still perfectly feasible. And things in discovery get thrown out all of the time in court. Just because it's in the documentation, doesn't mean it will stand up in court. I've read the documentation.

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Uh, yes there is. Otherwise if I made a shortcut to the WoW.exe, I would be committing copyright infringement. Or if I made a batch file that turns off a bunch of windows services, and also launched WoW. Both of those are user created things that "initiate the entire process". That doesn't mean anything. At all.

You making a shortcut to launch a program from your desktop is NOT the same as using a secondary process to launch that same process with the express intent of using it in a manner other than intended by the copyright provision. Your example is apples and oranges.

So worst case there, he's ordered to cease and desist. At this point, he starts using clean room reverse engineering. Makes development take longer, but still perfectly feasible. And things in discovery get thrown out all of the time in court. Just because it's in the documentation, doesn't mean it will stand up in court. I've read the documentation.

You apparently didn't read enough. The admissions he submitted were his own. You're saying that he can now get that thrown out in discovery? It was HIS motion for summary judgement in which he submitted the admissions. What planet are you from man?

[Tindel]

Why are you faggots supporting a guy haxxing a mmo? Do you enjoy botters in your games?...

Who cares how what and why? Just hope they nail the guy good and hard, and makes it easier for future cases.

[Wilfan]

Because we would never have dailies, cheap raid consumables and easy gold w/o bots and farmers.

[Heavens_Myst]

I would much rather see the game company ban the botters and buyers of gold that break their TOS agreement than have people who make these programs punished under criminal or civil law.

[Lusiphur]

Every time someone e-lawyers on the interwebz an angel loses its wings ..

Stop the feather pollution. Think of those with allergies !

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by chu

Now you're being retarded. I guess he can also claim that someone from Blizzard raped his mother and it'll stay in court right? Stupid speculations will not be heard in court unless it comes with proof.

Balance of probabilities
Also known as the "preponderance of evidence", this is the standard required in most civil cases. The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true. Effectively, the standard is satisfied if there is greater than 50% chance that the proposition is true. Lord Denning in Miller v. Minister of Pensions[2] described it simply as "more probable than not".

I am not being retarded i am telling you how it is, so now you are saying the browns did prove OJ was guilty? As I said before you do not have to "prove" guilt in a civil case, not even prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

you need to realize criminal and civil court are not the same thing.

[ranakor]

actually if they're sueing a company for making a program that "loads" wow they're pretty stupid because it means 1 of 2 things

1) it starts the wow process normally (no diferent parameters or anything) and is nothing more than a shortcut , in wich case it definately doesn't load it manually , it simply instructs windows to launch it & WINDOWS loads it in memory (wonder how microsoft is gonna like loading things into ram being disallowed , that would make them copyright infrigers on ... all windows programs made ever)

2) it uses an alternate mean to load wow in memory and , oh , you mean blizzard broke the dmca and reverse engineered someone else's program? (in the process likely loading it into memory too and by their terms also infriging on someone else's copyright?)

well i hope they have some strong arguements...

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Heavens_Myst

I would much rather see the game company ban the botters and buyers of gold that break their TOS agreement than have people who make these programs punished under criminal or civil law.

The DEA would much rather put the average pot smokers in jail instead of going after the drug lords too. That worked out well, right?

[Rayne]

Originally Posted by ranakor

well i hope they have some strong arguements...

You really don't get it do you? This isn't about some nothing program that "simply loads" WoW into RAM. Its about some lazy douchebag trying to gain the right for every other lazy douchebag out there to fuck up any mmo you ever play, so HE can make a fuckin' buck. Theres nothing "righteous" about this pricks agenda.

Wake the fuck up.

[Gryeyes]

Originally Posted by Rayne

You really don't get it do you? This isn't about some nothing program that "simply loads" WoW into RAM. Its about some lazy douchebag trying to gain the right for every other lazy douchebag out there to fuck up any mmo you ever play, so HE can make a fuckin' buck. Theres nothing "righteous" about this pricks agenda.

Wake the fuck up.

Its not like this single program is making that huge of an impact. There are zillion asians in basements that will grind for 50 cents a week. How can you call someone who creates and distributes his own software a lazy douchebag? Bots suck but stop trying to hate on the guy making his money.

You can still buy wowglider so obviously the courts didnt feel strongly enough to suspend his buisness till they got into court.