WoW Going EQ in terms of loot

[AladainAF]

Originally Posted by prescient63

Fuck cockblocks and vex thal keys. Other than that I don't see what checks you are going to have that isn't gear. Anyhow, I'll be happy to deck my bard out in 500hp gear in another 20 levels....

Everyone constantly ditches it, but FFXI has plenty of progression that isn't solely gear based, and encounters that are not "the latest" gear based.

For example, when CoP was released, instead of adding 5000 "Go fetch me X number of Y item" quests, they released a storyline that is so amazing, saying its epic is a flat out understatement. Anyone that has played through CoP can attest to that. In fact, most of CoP was level capped, so missions like 6-4 are going to be hard no matter what levels your jobs are. In FFXI, at least, its not all about the gear.

Not saying the game is perfect, and its got its fair share of problems, but if there is one MMO who appears to have mudflation completely in check, its FFXI.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Salshun

I mean even from a lore sense. In Burning Crusade you had Illidan as the last boss. IN WOTLK it will be Arthas/Lich King. Now, in the story, those two fought, and they seemed pretty evenly matched. They were rivals. Is Arthas going to be 10x more powerful than Illidan to adjust for expansion/inflation? Doubling mob hp and gear stats is NOT an upgrade.

I really do not care about the topic. I mean, it is about stupid raid gear and item progression in even more stupid everquest games, a problem that is simply solved by not playing/making everquest clones to begin with. (I'd prefer full loot / item drop or loss on death to solve item balancing)
Beside that WoW is a pve achievement game, based on a) everybody can do it and feels like a winner and b) there will always be better things you want. Levels will increase, items will get stronger, faction need to be grinded, whatever. Thats WoW and thats the way it works.

However.. what I was going to say.. When Arthas and Illidan fought Arthas was weakened. Back in the days there was a Blizzard posting giving some VIPs of the warcraft world AD&D levels. Arthas had level 16 (at full power, no the weakened version that fought illidian). Highest was Kael with 26 or so. Things like Deathwing or whatever else wow raiders might face in the future was not mentioned back then. Deathwings power level is OVER NINE THOUSAND at least. Arthas is no more Arthas, but the Lich King. When he took that crown he became (!) one of the most powerful creatures in warcraft. Also (I never played TBC) I think the players did not beat Illidan alone but with NPC help.

My point is that you are wrong in that case. They *were* never even to begin with and after taking the crown arthas is even stronger. Also the warcraft universe provides many entities that are stronger so lore wise it is no problem having the bosses scale with the levels. Also whats the problem with doubling mob hp and gear stats? Thats the way the game works. Items and Level increase so you can kill monster with higher level / higher stats. You could also complain about levels beyond 10 are stupid as whats the point of gaining levels when all mobs do the same? thats NOT an upgrade. Eh?

[Rezz]

Just a note about the lore with the Arthas/Illidan fight: Illidan lost to arthas and they were pretty evenly matched. Then Arthas got ahold of the crown of the lich king, becoming far more powerful as one of the most powerful magical forces on the planet mixed with an already really powerful death knight. Lich King Arthas would roflstomp the shit out of Illidan and not even bat an eye doing so.

[Zerai]

On top of that, Arthas has spent the past year becoming more powerful. All Illidan has done since they fought is whine.

[Presarc]

Originally Posted by AladainAF

Everyone constantly ditches it, but FFXI has plenty of progression that isn't solely gear based, and encounters that are not "the latest" gear based.

For example, when CoP was released, instead of adding 5000 "Go fetch me X number of Y item" quests, they released a storyline that is so amazing, saying its epic is a flat out understatement. Anyone that has played through CoP can attest to that. In fact, most of CoP was level capped, so missions like 6-4 are going to be hard no matter what levels your jobs are. In FFXI, at least, its not all about the gear.

Not saying the game is perfect, and its got its fair share of problems, but if there is one MMO who appears to have mudflation completely in check, its FFXI.

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PLAY THIS GAME THAT I AM PLAYING?!?!

[Suineg]

FFS leave the stupid lore out of this.

The sooner you realize that they will twist lore every expansion to meet their needs then the sooner you can drop the 'canon' lore and stick with whatever is actually in the game.

[Danth]

If nothing else, this thread has educated me as to where that 'Nine Thousand!' thing came from thanks to the link in Inconsiderable's post. I'm disappointed that it was from kid stuff like whatever that was, though. No wonder I had never seen it.

I dislike stat inflation just because I consider excessively large numbers visually annoying. However, for every player who agrees with me there seem to be five folks who think hitting something for 1000 is 'better' than hitting for 100 regardless of any other factor. Oh well, I can live with that. Of all the problems a game can have, stat inflation falls pretty far down on the list of how much it really matters.

I have gripes of my own with Warcraft. Despite the wealth of tools and gimmicks available today, Blizzard keeps designing instances with layouts physically less complex than the mazes in "Adventure" for the Atari VCS I played as a kid. Warcraft really isn't a very good game for someone who primarily wants to do dungeons with a group of fellow gamers, but despite its flaws it still manages the most 'livable' balance of features (for me) of any of the current major MMORPG's. One game I liked globally better than Warcraft I couldn't physically bear to actually play; all the dungeon design in the world is entirely wasted in that case. A game has to be a complete package, and in that sense Warcraft does well.

Danth

[EmiliaEQ]

dungeon layouts

Diablo 1 had the best random Dungeon & Mob Generator Ever

[Hatorade]

Just read this whole thread...makes me hate all of you. That said I like the idea of zoning into a dungeon and a buff bot is there making you on par with the content you are doing while you are in the zone. You can see larger numbers and PVP can be equalized.

Seeing as how WoW devs are lazy fat fucks sleeping and fucking their bags of cash thats the best we can expect to see besides mudflation.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Since this is devolving into yet another "Let's bitch about MMO's" thread...

Originally Posted by Danth

If nothing else

There have been a ton of complaints about the rail-shooter dungeon design Blizzard took in TBC, both here and elsewhere. In their attempts to make the dungeons more accessible to the "WE ONLY HAVE 20 MINUTES A NIGHT TO PLAY OH FUCK OH GOD" retards they threw design to the wind and gave us 3 boss rooms, 2 tunnels, repeat 13 times. The boss fights are by and large pretty unique and fun each unto themselves though.

Stat inflation is mostly an aesthetic thing. The main difference is you can go back and kick the shit out of things that used to kick the shit out of you. Gives you the 'illusion' of getting more powerful and allows you to iron man content which is something a not-insignificant part of the gaming population enjoys.

Mudflation isn't really a 'problem' that needs to be solved. You have a handful of assholes that go, "LOL 30k hp I remember when u only had 2k!!!" but as Danth pointed out, it's largely an aesthetic issue. You could just switch everything completely over to a rating system that devalues as you level and instead of hitting a boss with 1 million hp for 1000, you hit for a boss with 100% hp for .1% instead.

[Kreugen]

Originally Posted by Salshun

I mean even from a lore sense. In Burning Crusade you had Illidan as the last boss. IN WOTLK it will be Arthas/Lich King. Now, in the story, those two fought, and they seemed pretty evenly matched. They were rivals. Is Arthas going to be 10x more powerful than Illidan to adjust for expansion/inflation? Doubling mob hp and gear stats is NOT an upgrade.

Uh, a weakened Arthas punked Illidan in Frozen Throne - and THEN he joined with the Lich King, a being whose power is growing so out of control that its creator Kil'Jaeden wouldn't even face him alone. And Illidan is Kil'Jaeden's bitch.

Arthas as the Lich King is now much, much more powerful than Illidan ever was. In fact it really seems too early for Arthas to even be a boss, and more than likely there will be some lore with weakening him somehow. (destroy the throne? Break Frostmourne? I highly doubt the fight is going to involve Arthas at full strength)

And yeah, I just played through Frozen Throne.

[Mkopec1]

I do have to agree that loot in wow is too fucking boring. Its all bland and too predictable. 5 more str, 5 more sta, 5 more spell hit, 5 more healing? BORING. Its all fucking generic shit that looks like it was auto generated. How bout some cool clickie shit? How bout some cool worn effects. Shit, even D2 had better loot than this game. How bout effects on loot which make certain talents better? Where is my hunter bracer which summons arrows for me?

Even the fucking gems are boring as hell.. 10 str 10 sta, more attack, crit? GAG. How bout the idea like Anarchy had with their implants? Hmm? Take 3 stones with diffrent powers and combine them into some unique gem. Maybe Add sone fucking well needed depth and complexity to this game? Maybe give peopel some choice instead of a given?

Nahh lets stick to +5 more str and sta, keep this shit easy for the no taent ass clowns and the monkeys which play...

[Zehn - Vhex]

Well, they also said that we weren't going to kill Illidan, just "get in his way" but I clearly see a corpse each week. Would have been nice if they had fixed the chest-looting issue earlier so that he could fly away saying, "SO LONG FUCKERS" and Khadgar could port us back to the plane of knowle...I mean Shattrath.

[Bizanich]

Originally Posted by Kreugen

Arthas as the Lich King is now much, much more powerful than Illidan ever was. In fact it really seems too early for Arthas to even be a boss, and more than likely there will be some lore with weakening him somehow. (destroy the throne? Break Frostmourne? I highly doubt the fight is going to involve Arthas at full strength)

And yeah, I just played through Frozen Throne.

There's no way Arthas dies at the end of WotLK. He's either driven away, a magic wall drops in between and he shakes fist menacingly, or it's not the real Arthas....

It does seem way too early to face him, but it's probably just due to fans demanding it.

[Twobit Whore]

He will die and Frostmourne will be a legendary 2hander.

Next expansion will be Emerald Dream where we will end the eternal nightmare and after that Into the Maelstrom where we will eradicate the last great threats. By then WoW will be nearing 10 years old and it will be time for game over.