WoW Going EQ in terms of loot

[Deris]

Originally Posted by yknits

In today's MMO's... Gear is > skill. It is the benchmark for the value of your character. Guilds across the world are fairly strict about their gear requirements. This would not be the case if mudflation were handled with a greater spread of grey area.

A perfect example is Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengence. Until a few tiers into POP it was still very much viable. Yes there were upgrades, but mostly sidegrades or minor upgrades until Ifir, Dagger of Fire. Even so, you would not be laughed at for having a MDV while fighting Fennin Ro. Yes the item was revamped... but the point stands. MDV was and is viable through multiple expansions. Nobody likes the ring event... so what.

I used lvl 60 Bracers on my Paladin obtained from Naxxramas until T5. Same with boots .

Also to shit on your face : we've recruited quite a few rerolls in full greens, and are a top 50 guild world wide.

Gear don't mean shit. We've kicked apps in full T6 because they didn't perform. We'll raid with them for a few bosses, pull up their WWS of the last raid which parses every bit of action they did, and figure out what they are doing wrong, tell them how to fix it, then tell them to gtfo if they don't.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Wilfan

Why the fuck do you need gold if you don't raid?

To buy epic flyer. After that there isn't much to spend gold on except buying Arena teams?

[Sanadebe]

Originally Posted by Deris

Also to shit on your face : we've recruited quite a few rerolls in full greens, and are a top 50 guild world wide.

Thats not shitting on his face. I'd laugh at anyone raiding in greens.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by Deris

I used lvl 60 Bracers on my Paladin obtained from Naxxramas until T5. Same with boots .

Also to shit on your face : we've recruited quite a few rerolls in full greens, and are a top 50 guild world wide.

Gear don't mean shit. We've kicked apps in full T6 because they didn't perform. We'll raid with them for a few bosses, pull up their WWS of the last raid which parses every bit of action they did, and figure out what they are doing wrong, tell them how to fix it, then tell them to gtfo if they don't.

To shit on your face, there are always exceptions to the rule. You aren't going to waltz into a guild with level 60 loot #1. Your token arguement fails even more when you consider that your level 60 loot was from naxx. Which shows that you, at some point, had to have experienced some sort of organized raiding.

WWS isn't going to fix shit if their gear is shit. So let me place this log in your mouth as not to block your eyes. Maybe if you read your own statements, you will understand the difference between your experience and reality.

I recently came back to EQ. I leveled and geared at a pace most will never see. Does this mean that everyone can do it? No. I have friends willing to help me and am smart enough to know that my own situation is a token arguement.

Hell just fucking go to this boards main page. Posted by Melia:

If you are a rogue, warrior, paladin (of any variation), hunter, feral druid, or warlock, do not apply.

If you are undergeared, do not apply (you should ideally have T6 or equivalent).

If you have very little or no raid experience, do not apply (5 and 10 man content does NOT count).

If you do not live in the Pacific Standard Time Zone, do not apply (don't take it personal, if you're EST you will do nothing but annoy us every night at 9pm when you're sweepy and want to log).

If you cannot speak and/or understand English, do not apply.
Si no entiendes o hablas ingles no apliques

If you cannot read and/or write English, do not apply.
Si no puedes leer o escribir ingles no apliques

If you are under 18 years of age, do not apply.

We really only want a well geared Holy Priest, Shaman (spec is negotiable), and maybe a Shadow Priest and Mage (only if you're extremely well geared).

And your point was what? Wowjutsu shows FOH at rank #104 for US. I didn't have the patience to wade through to find their world wide rank. Your a fucking dipshit for even trying to tout that somebody could come to back to this game in pre-TBC gear and get into a decent raid guild. Especially with the STA revamp which was stated previously. Let alone get into a top tier guild wearing Kara gear; UNLESS YOU ARE A TOKEN ARGUEMENT.

Not only that, but to further illustrate the the point. I will continue to shit in your mouth some more.

The effective DPS of somebody in Kara gear raiding sunwell is going to be light years behind that of somebody with tier 6 equivelent gear. No matter how many WWS's you run. You aren't going to fix the DPS difference.

Now with the EQ model, which isn't perfect either, you could be fairly effective using a hodge podge mix of gear from the previous expansions. No you would not be min/maxing but isn't that a big part of the problem I stated earlier?

You nearly perfectly identified yourself as a min/maxer. You run reports to squeek out the most from your members. True you admitted that you used level 60 bracers but I'm certain your token arguement has more behind the story than you are telling.

[James]

Effective DPS? Level 60 loot? You think you're hardcore? Son, I was calculating and comparing the effective DPS of Fireball Flower and Tail Whip over 15 years ago. I played in world 7-3. You don't know pain until you play in world 7-3. And my guild, Mario Ballers, got there without warps pre-Bowser fix. Don't play your hardcore shit here.

[findar]

eh bringing scrub'd out players to bt/hyjal to gear up isnt inconsistant at all. before you had to get your attunements and got gear along the way, now that you can skip that t6 guilds have no reason to touch ssc/eye so the gear gap is much larger.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by James

Effective DPS? Level 60 loot? You think you're hardcore? Son, I was calculating and comparing the effective DPS of Fireball Flower and Tail Whip over 15 years ago. I played in world 7-3. You don't know pain until you play in world 7-3. And my guild, Mario Ballers, got there without warps pre-Bowser fix. Don't play your hardcore shit here.

Oh dear god. With every word you spout, this board loses its muster. Hardcore shit? Where did I play hardcore in my post you fucking twit? Maybe using your brain to read would be better than half ass attempting to be funny to your .com buddies. Did you think of that all on your own? It isn't my fault you are stuck in your masochistic ways. If games could trade braincells for loot, you'd be hardcore... I suppose. Do you even know the issue at hand?

And findar, it isn't just about bringing loot from past. Scrubs in shit gear is different than old gear being viable. Which is where mudflation and the fight against it come into play. Sure you can bring people with shit gear and catch them up.

[James]

Originally Posted by yknits

Do you even know the issue at hand?

The issue at hand is that YOU USED FUCKING MARIO AS YOUR EXAMPLE ON HOW TO DESIGN LOOT.

[Zehn - Vhex]

For the record, wowjutsu is wrong. Very wrong. They had us at not even having killed kalecgos until like 2 days ago.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by James

The issue at hand is that YOU USED FUCKING MARIO AS YOUR EXAMPLE ON HOW TO DESIGN LOOT.

So procs, clickies, temporary buffs are a bad thing? Because the parallel is apparently beyond your brains ability, I will explain further.

Imagine an MMO where the gear augments your character in small buffs and temporary gains as well as minor static gains. The looks of the armor were a symbol of achievement and the clickies were useful but not detrimental.

A player would be nearly on par with another player except for a few knick knacks and nostalgic items. It would take longer for mudflation to set in when the static stats on loot were minor increases.

Couple that with a system that allows gear to be mixed and matched fairly effectively with previous expansions loot and you have a system that works well to address:

• Player recognition for achievement

• Player skill > gear

• Slowing of Mudflation

• Nostalgic Loot

• Poeple aren't all wearing Same shit because there is a bigger grey area of effective loot

Wow is trending towards the opposite. This is bad. While they make strides to allow people to catch up quickly, which is actually a great thing, they fail to fix a major problem. Old content becomes extinct.

Content should never become extinct. If that is the world we choose to live in (gameplay), then it should be vibrant and alive. Changing and moving. Understand, I realize this is a tedius content task. It is not impossible. There are multiple problems here. Mudflation is a result in part to them as well as being inevitable on in it's own right.

Problems that contribute to today's MMO crisis are:

• Players chewing through content faster than can be designed. To the point of playing more hours a week than working.

• Content being designed around a broken loot system.

• Character Power scales more with gear than with skill.

• Content becoming extinct.

• Failed Group systems

Wow needs to change loot direction... Again. Everyone loves big numbers, but big numbers are only big when compaired to smaller numbers. The difference in perspective between 2 and 5,000 is not that great compaired to 2-500,000. If you knew nothing of the second set... you may say 2-5,000 is huge. Next to 2-500,000 it is nil and meaningless.

If not wow, then another MMO needs to be designed not around a loot treadmill but a system of temporary augmentations. Much like the simplistic game of Mario.

If you played any rainbow six series or counterstrike, then you should understand how minor differences can stimulate great gameplay. Each gun provided for a difference of play style and player development. Some players choose AWP's and some choose AK's; Some players choose Enfield's and some choose fama's. The point is that those differences make a big difference at times; whether in your favor or not. Ever try and snipe somebody with a Mac 10? Ever try and use an AWP up close? It takes a different skillset for those weapons to become effective at those ranges. Meaning players must develop the skill. And that ladies in gentlemen is why MMO's of today are failing. It has become a treadmill of loot rather than the lush world it should be.

If you cannot comprehend why we must look outside the MMO genre for inspiration, then just die. A simple study of gaming history can give us valuable insights into how we may fix this current crisis.

Poeple want Wow to be fixed. People want the Wow Killer. People want the game I am speaking of.

Temporary augmentation > Loot treadmill. And most of the MMO's already incorporate this into the system. Unfortunately they are all too far down the wrong rabbit hole to fix the issue. We must start new.

[Draegan]

Dude you should definitely put Luigi 8-3 Plumber NES Retired in your sig.

You earned it brah.

[Zerai]

What you're talking about is a fps mmo ala planetside with fantasy not guns. Not a typical RPG. I agree that such a thing is nice, but, it's quite different than what WoW is trying to be.

[yknits]

Originally Posted by Zerai

What you're talking about is a fps mmo ala planetside with fantasy not guns. Not a typical RPG. I agree that such a thing is nice, but, it's quite different than what WoW is trying to be.

Not quite. I'm talking about toning down the Loot system. That doesn't make the mechanics of encounters different. Even completely naked, they could retune content to those statistics. I refer to the non-mmo's as a reference for inspiration but by no means does it need to be an FPS. Loot simply dictates too much about the game mechanics. It would be much easier to tune around a less variable constant than the current gear checks we have today. I would not be opposed to an FPS MMO either, if they did it right.

I just get sick of people touting skill because they spent 30 hours a week to get loot. Complaining when loot isn't good enough and then when it is too good.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by yknits

Not quite. I'm talking about toning down the Loot system. That doesn't make the mechanics of encounters different. Even completely naked, they could retune content to those statistics. I refer to the non-mmo's as a reference for inspiration but by no means does it need to be an FPS. Loot simply dictates too much about the game mechanics. It would be much easier to tune around a less variable constant than the current gear checks we have today. I would not be opposed to an FPS MMO either, if they did it right.

I just get sick of people touting skill because they spent 30 hours a week to get loot. Complaining when loot isn't good enough and then when it is too good.

Dumar 2.0. Nothing to see here.

[Blumpster]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

For the record, wowjutsu is wrong. Very wrong. They had us at not even having killed kalecgos until like 2 days ago.

It updates on a time table. It doesn't update all guilds every night. You can submit your guild for updates manually, and they'll be put in the queue, but if you don't it'll probably take 3-4 days.