[WoW] Thinking on coming back, how much has it changed? - Page 42

Fadaar · 07-09-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitogamer

lulz

Grave · 07-09-2008, 10:44 PM

Anyone able to tell me the state of Mages in the game currently? Thinking about making a comeback and rolling a new character just to have more options for the expansion.

I know some have been complaining about being outdone by most other dps classes, but are they still viable to have around? Any good in pvp?

Zehn - Vhex · 07-09-2008, 10:50 PM

Mage/priest/rogue is ezmoad 2K+ rating in 3's. You usually only bring 1 or 2 on raids as well. You'll find no shortage of groups though as mages are excellent for heroics.

Definite weak spot is groups though. They need to bring back rolling ignites something fierce.

Aria · 07-10-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grave

Anyone able to tell me the state of Mages in the game currently? Thinking about making a comeback and rolling a new character just to have more options for the expansion.

I know some have been complaining about being outdone by most other dps classes, but are they still viable to have around? Any good in pvp?

Frost mage is incredible in pvp, requires a little bit of twitchy skill though sometimes and fast reactions.

For PVE I love my mage. Usually can outdamage pugs easily, but on guild stuff not so much.

Jabberwhacky · 07-10-2008, 02:10 AM

I actually just rolled a mage 2 days ago. I'm just 24 but man, I can't believe I wasted all that time leveling a shaman to 70 when the mage is what I wanted all along. Why waste an entire talent line on melee I'll never use or heals directed at r-tards in losing BGs? How bout a talent line that helps you pewpew, a talent line that helps you icepew and a talent line that helps you burnpew? Yes please.

At this point I'm pretty much aiming at WotLK where everything's gonna get mixed up, so even though mages are 'lacking' in the end-game DPS raid meters, by the time I get there, we'll all be 80. Mages are great until then. Can't tell you how many times I've been passed up (on my Ele shaman) for a mage because I couldn't fucking CC.

Goofy · 07-10-2008, 02:56 AM

i think mage is the dps class that brings the most to the table for instances. with food sheep and damage and also a group buff (albiet not neccessary).

Tholan · 07-10-2008, 04:53 AM

As an arcane mage with the 2/5 T5 bonus, heroics are very easy: you juste arcane blast 3 or 4 times for 2k+ damage non crit while a fire mage just cast a fireball or two, usually pulling agro right after it hits the mob.

PvP wise, I must suck because they are very few classes I can kill..
Against rogue, it's just absurd how I simply can't do anything.

Lejina Bloodbath · 07-10-2008, 05:23 AM

The mage suck on raids is really a end game thing. I was dominating the damage done on raids by a fair bit until we started to hit T6. At that point rogues and destro locks get absurd. That is as 10-0-51.

You need some serious gears before fire or arcane kicks in, and as frost you get to do some great damage for the first 3/4 of progression, be awesome in 5-10mans and do pretty well in pvp. To never have to respec is a nice perk too.

Sharmai · 07-10-2008, 05:42 AM

Mages are the #2 or #3 most needed class in PuG's atm. Tanks are #1 and healers are #2 or#3 depending on the time of day. Every pug out there these days wants CC and mages are the preferred cc class right now. Rogues are melee and while not bad CC the pug rogues take to much damage from all the aoe damage going around these days. Good hunters are hard to find and they don't bring any food/water or buffs to healers like mages do.

Pyros · 07-10-2008, 05:52 AM

Yeah I'll agree on mages being the most sought after DPS class. Mostly because sheep is the easiest CC to use in the game, even monkeys manage to keep stuff sheeped. Recastable, range, 1.5s, it's so easy. In comparison Sap is a one time thing, fear is dangerous and trap requires correct positionning. They're also awesome DPS since on these short fights(even on heroics), you can't really run out of mana, so you get to burst as much as possible, giving good dmg whatever the spec. Counterspell is also very useful in a decent number of heroics, to get the annoying casters to come to the tank fast.

Araxen · 07-10-2008, 07:22 AM

Roll a warlock.

Sharmai · 07-10-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araxen

Roll a warlock.

Then watch rogue 00234144 tear you a new asshole over and over again.
Warlocks: Second only to Shaman when the rogue lube train rolls by. (Edit.. hunters are up there to)

Araxen · 07-10-2008, 08:49 AM

Like it helps being a mage against a rogue? Rogue's tear us apart too. If you blink away they just shadowstep, you iceblock they just restealth and wait for you, frostnova them they just use cloak of the skillless. And they haven't even used blind on you yet! You're just as fucked as a Mage.

Sharmai · 07-10-2008, 08:54 AM

Sure i agree but you'll have a better chance of surviving long before a warlock shaman or hunter does. Any of those 3 classes and its just bend over and die with 0% chance of survival or getting away.

With a mage you can do what you said and coldsnap and do it all again. Also you can use your water elem (twice) to frost nova the rogue and make him waste his cloak of skill.

I mean yes its still hard but not nearly as frustrating as being one of the other 3 classes... in my opinion.

Mythas · 07-10-2008, 08:59 AM

As a long time mage, yes mages have it really good in instances (in old world and TBC). However, on the horizon is wotlk and rogues and shaman have had "leaked" increases to thier cc options. Rogues are going to be able to sap anything with "a head and a brain". Shaman are getting hex *yay frog for 15 - 12 sec* most likely recastable in pve with dr in pvp. Being able to supply the tards with water is a perk to, though you'll love getting tells everywhere you go for the shit.

From a min / max standpoint in raids mages are found lacking in thier current form. Rogues, Locks, Hunters, warriors *though they lack a threat dump* just flat out scale better with gear than mages do. Frostfire bolt at this point looks to be the saving grace of the mage class. All data points to having both all talents work together on ONE spell. Meaning this spell has the capability for 350% crits at level 80. However i am sure we will see some tweaking / changing of the spell.

As for pvp unless you are incredibly geared frost is the only way to go. Once you are 300+ resil you can do well enough as fire. I got to 1900 in S3 as fire, my team was kind of a "do what ever we were burnt out from S2 team".

Mage pvp relies solely on macros to be good what so ever. You need focus sheep target macros. pet nova macros. Your counterspell needs to have a stop casting macro. Everything needs keybound, even gems, drinking / eating.

Mage pvp isn't what most people think it is. The large majority of it *in arena* is running for your life trying not to die, sheeping when you can, and then when cooldowns allow it doing 4 - 5k burst dmg via the shatter-combos.

Yes RMP is "easy mode" because of all the cc they can throw around. Its just a really strong synergy with the rogue and having so much cc coming from two people. Novas / slows / blinds / stuns / sheeps just really inhibit the movement from the other team.

Having said RMP is a great combo for mages its one of the ONLY combos for mages. The buff to undispellable shields is good and we are seeing a bit of a resurgance of mages in group comps. Mages just have so many counters.

SHS rogues can typically go cooldown for cool down with even frost mages. A rogue who plays well and takes his time using his energy for primarily cc will eventually whittle away at a mage. Now mages "can" win this fight but with the changes and buffs to the subtlety tree rogues are very much a contender with frost mages.

Locks, sl / sl locks just have your number. No question. Occasionally you may catch an afk lock and you might win. They just have everything to counter anything you may want to do. To have a chance at winning, you have to play perfect and have a little of the rng on your side.

Hunters as MM are a bit easier to deal with than the BM hunters. You still find a good mix of bm / mm in arena at least from my perspective. H-W-D and H-L-D are solid 3's teams that I saw alot of. You will have a tough time with any well played hunter, thankfully they are few and far between.

Warriors as a frost mage are the one match up you shouldn't have much of a problem with. Keep ice barrier up because let me tell you getting hit with an s3 mace hurts...bad. Keep them novaed and you win, its pretty easy. Don't blink the charge, blink intercept. if you can't beat a warrior as a frost mage log off life.

Healers will plague you. Smart healers that heal early and often you can almost never go toe to toe with. All healer have some form of damage they can hit you with, and will just slowly and painfully kill you.

Mind you these match ups assume equally geared and intelligent opposing players. Mages dominate bgs which are primarily filled with retards. Even though mages have the cards stacked against them they are a fun and very very challenging class to play and excell with. That is the large part that draws me to the class.

Mages are fun to level, fun to group with, fun to screw around with in pvp. Its just that currently once you put your serious face on in the game, they are just coming up a bit short at the end game.

07-09-2008, 10:44 PM	#617 (permalink)
Grave Slightly OP Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,159	Anyone able to tell me the state of Mages in the game currently? Thinking about making a comeback and rolling a new character just to have more options for the expansion. I know some have been complaining about being outdone by most other dps classes, but are they still viable to have around? Any good in pvp? __________________

07-10-2008, 02:56 AM	#621 (permalink)
Goofy AzN PrYdE Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,007 -1 Internets	i think mage is the dps class that brings the most to the table for instances. with food sheep and damage and also a group buff (albiet not neccessary). __________________ got milk?

07-10-2008, 07:22 AM	#626 (permalink)
Araxen Pride Never Die Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Near Chicago, IL Posts: 2,465	Roll a warlock. __________________ Currently Playing: WoW: Nuklear, Araxen - Thrall PSN: Araxen

07-10-2008, 08:49 AM	#628 (permalink)
Araxen Pride Never Die Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Near Chicago, IL Posts: 2,465	Like it helps being a mage against a rogue? Rogue's tear us apart too. If you blink away they just shadowstep, you iceblock they just restealth and wait for you, frostnova them they just use cloak of the skillless. And they haven't even used blind on you yet! You're just as fucked as a Mage. __________________ Currently Playing: WoW: Nuklear, Araxen - Thrall PSN: Araxen

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07-09-2008, 10:50 PM	#618 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,661 +66 Internets	Mage/priest/rogue is ezmoad 2K+ rating in 3's. You usually only bring 1 or 2 on raids as well. You'll find no shortage of groups though as mages are excellent for heroics. Definite weak spot is groups though. They need to bring back rolling ignites something fierce.

07-10-2008, 02:10 AM	#620 (permalink)
Jabberwhacky Walker told me I have AIDS Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In da FACE!! (two times) Posts: 2,832	I actually just rolled a mage 2 days ago. I'm just 24 but man, I can't believe I wasted all that time leveling a shaman to 70 when the mage is what I wanted all along. Why waste an entire talent line on melee I'll never use or heals directed at r-tards in losing BGs? How bout a talent line that helps you pewpew, a talent line that helps you icepew and a talent line that helps you burnpew? Yes please. At this point I'm pretty much aiming at WotLK where everything's gonna get mixed up, so even though mages are 'lacking' in the end-game DPS raid meters, by the time I get there, we'll all be 80. Mages are great until then. Can't tell you how many times I've been passed up (on my Ele shaman) for a mage because I couldn't fucking CC.

07-10-2008, 04:53 AM	#622 (permalink)
Tholan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 107 +0 Internets	As an arcane mage with the 2/5 T5 bonus, heroics are very easy: you juste arcane blast 3 or 4 times for 2k+ damage non crit while a fire mage just cast a fireball or two, usually pulling agro right after it hits the mob. PvP wise, I must suck because they are very few classes I can kill.. Against rogue, it's just absurd how I simply can't do anything.

07-10-2008, 05:23 AM	#623 (permalink)
Lejina Bloodbath Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,051 -2 Internets	The mage suck on raids is really a end game thing. I was dominating the damage done on raids by a fair bit until we started to hit T6. At that point rogues and destro locks get absurd. That is as 10-0-51. You need some serious gears before fire or arcane kicks in, and as frost you get to do some great damage for the first 3/4 of progression, be awesome in 5-10mans and do pretty well in pvp. To never have to respec is a nice perk too.

07-10-2008, 05:52 AM	#625 (permalink)
Pyros Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,595 +24 Internets	Yeah I'll agree on mages being the most sought after DPS class. Mostly because sheep is the easiest CC to use in the game, even monkeys manage to keep stuff sheeped. Recastable, range, 1.5s, it's so easy. In comparison Sap is a one time thing, fear is dangerous and trap requires correct positionning. They're also awesome DPS since on these short fights(even on heroics), you can't really run out of mana, so you get to burst as much as possible, giving good dmg whatever the spec. Counterspell is also very useful in a decent number of heroics, to get the annoying casters to come to the tank fast.

07-10-2008, 08:59 AM	#630 (permalink)
Mythas Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 279 -6 Internets	As a long time mage, yes mages have it really good in instances (in old world and TBC). However, on the horizon is wotlk and rogues and shaman have had "leaked" increases to thier cc options. Rogues are going to be able to sap anything with "a head and a brain". Shaman are getting hex yay frog for 15 - 12 sec most likely recastable in pve with dr in pvp. Being able to supply the tards with water is a perk to, though you'll love getting tells everywhere you go for the shit. From a min / max standpoint in raids mages are found lacking in thier current form. Rogues, Locks, Hunters, warriors though they lack a threat dump just flat out scale better with gear than mages do. Frostfire bolt at this point looks to be the saving grace of the mage class. All data points to having both all talents work together on ONE spell. Meaning this spell has the capability for 350% crits at level 80. However i am sure we will see some tweaking / changing of the spell. As for pvp unless you are incredibly geared frost is the only way to go. Once you are 300+ resil you can do well enough as fire. I got to 1900 in S3 as fire, my team was kind of a "do what ever we were burnt out from S2 team". Mage pvp relies solely on macros to be good what so ever. You need focus sheep target macros. pet nova macros. Your counterspell needs to have a stop casting macro. Everything needs keybound, even gems, drinking / eating. Mage pvp isn't what most people think it is. The large majority of it in arena is running for your life trying not to die, sheeping when you can, and then when cooldowns allow it doing 4 - 5k burst dmg via the shatter-combos. Yes RMP is "easy mode" because of all the cc they can throw around. Its just a really strong synergy with the rogue and having so much cc coming from two people. Novas / slows / blinds / stuns / sheeps just really inhibit the movement from the other team. Having said RMP is a great combo for mages its one of the ONLY combos for mages. The buff to undispellable shields is good and we are seeing a bit of a resurgance of mages in group comps. Mages just have so many counters. SHS rogues can typically go cooldown for cool down with even frost mages. A rogue who plays well and takes his time using his energy for primarily cc will eventually whittle away at a mage. Now mages "can" win this fight but with the changes and buffs to the subtlety tree rogues are very much a contender with frost mages. Locks, sl / sl locks just have your number. No question. Occasionally you may catch an afk lock and you might win. They just have everything to counter anything you may want to do. To have a chance at winning, you have to play perfect and have a little of the rng on your side. Hunters as MM are a bit easier to deal with than the BM hunters. You still find a good mix of bm / mm in arena at least from my perspective. H-W-D and H-L-D are solid 3's teams that I saw alot of. You will have a tough time with any well played hunter, thankfully they are few and far between. Warriors as a frost mage are the one match up you shouldn't have much of a problem with. Keep ice barrier up because let me tell you getting hit with an s3 mace hurts...bad. Keep them novaed and you win, its pretty easy. Don't blink the charge, blink intercept. if you can't beat a warrior as a frost mage log off life. Healers will plague you. Smart healers that heal early and often you can almost never go toe to toe with. All healer have some form of damage they can hit you with, and will just slowly and painfully kill you. Mind you these match ups assume equally geared and intelligent opposing players. Mages dominate bgs which are primarily filled with retards. Even though mages have the cards stacked against them they are a fun and very very challenging class to play and excell with. That is the large part that draws me to the class. Mages are fun to level, fun to group with, fun to screw around with in pvp. Its just that currently once you put your serious face on in the game, they are just coming up a bit short at the end game.