2008 - Year of the MMO?

[Old Man Potter]

Originally Posted by Salshun

I can't see WoW failing. I just can't.

Look at Everquest. While it started as this incredible game it just got so bad so slowly that we just woke up on day and realized we had been getting ass fucked for 3 years.

And I honestly think Blizzard has a bigger dedication to their customers than SOE did. Blizzard wants to fix problems, they listen to their customers for the most part, etc. They want a happy customer base.

When you have a game this successful and dominating, combined with its industry recognition, limitless resources, and developers that listen...it's almost impossible to sink that ship.

I'm not so sure. Blizzard has become arrogant. They think they can do no wrong and that everything they touch will turn to gold. Their latest push on trying to promote WoW as a PVP e-sport is very dangerous as it's alienating their core and hardcore players alike. Blizzard has forgotten that PVE is the true foundation of their MMO not PVP.

Happy customer base? I've never seen WoW players unhappy as they are right now in-game and on the forums. Arena PVP is a cancer that is rapidly consuming the rest of WoW right now thanks to that blundering imbecile Tom Chilton. There is no reason to do normal instances right now as PVP rewards are much better. Guilds are having a touch time recruiting and many are starting to fold -- adding insult to injury after Blizzard destroyed the 40 man raiding guild paradigm with BCE. Take away the reason to join a guild and you can kiss the real WoW goodbye.

Blizzard has lost's way due to the egos and self-indulgence of it's leads and managers. So they are planning a WoW movie? What nonesense. I suppose Chris Metzen always wanted to "direct". What's next a WoW TV show or a WoW Saturday morning cartoon? Someone at Vivendi needs to walk into the Blizzard offices and throw a pail of water on these clowns and tell them to get back to making a real MMO.

[slitz]

Originally Posted by Old Man Potter

stuff

Ah come on, give me a break.
Since when does people-whining actually have anything at all to do with the real game?
Just look around on, in this case, the WoW official forums. Random jackass X can start whining about a issue that doesn't even fucking exist, 3-4 hours later people that read the post start to believe the jackass, after checking their own napkin notes, and make their own sub thread about the issue that didn't exist in the first place.

I'm not going to sit on a high horse and call all these people morons, because I've fallen into the exact same hole everyone else keep falling into. The best one can do it is just stop reading the fucking forums and enjoy the game for what it is.

Of course, not even World of Warcraft is the perfect game, but you know as well as I do that whenever that Warlock start fear chaining you / death coiling you, you're (general you) not even trying to counter it anymore, you're already writing the next whine post in your head.

I'm not a fanboi (at least I don't think I am) but you would be kidding yourself if you don't think Blizzard have a healthy customer base and aren't actually thinking about them. While other companies/developers would spend 6 months denying there is a problem with issue X, Blizzard already embraced the change, implemented it (although slowly) and planned adding more features to it in the next expansion.

[Salshun]

I do agree with you guys concerning Blizzards ever growing arrogance.

Part of me really doesn't blame them, either. If I had a product or a service that had 6 million PAYING customers you would have one HELL of a time trying to tell me a god damned thing.

[Mkopec1]

Originally Posted by Old Man Potter

Happy customer base? I've never seen WoW players unhappy as they are right now in-game and on the forums. Arena PVP is a cancer that is rapidly consuming the rest of WoW right now thanks to that blundering imbecile Tom Chilton. There is no reason to do normal instances right now as PVP rewards are much better. Guilds are having a touch time recruiting and many are starting to fold -- adding insult to injury after Blizzard destroyed the 40 man raiding guild paradigm with BCE. Take away the reason to join a guild and you can kiss the real WoW goodbye.

WoW is fine. PvE in wow is fine. In fact do a search and see for yourself how many guilds are raiding and having fun. And the floodgates will open up more in 2.4 when attunements are dropped for everything. Raiding loot is always better and will be for PvE. And in next patch they are adding Arena gear to Badge vendors, so yeah, you can do instances for arena gear if you like in the near future.

The only shitty thing ever about wow is their content delivery time lines. This drives the game into unnecessary grinds because of lack of content.

But people will be bitching about anything on the forums and shit, are we forgetting that the forums are basically the 10% of the loudest mouth breathers playing WoW? Rest of the 90% are happily playing and paying.

I do agree that arrogance can be the downfall for WoW though. It was basically the downfall of EQ and SOE back in the day.

[Kreugen]

LOTR has a very limited scope compared to EQ/WoW. It is stripped down the bare bones of "do quests, advance story." WoW gives you the option to play as casual as LOTRO, but you sure as hell can't do everything in the game that way.

Not bashing LOTRO, just saying, its not a game with much depth beyond casual play. That's why I wouldn't even consider it the same genre as EQ/EQ2/Vanguard/WoW. At best its WoW-lite, which I'm afraid is what we will get from the vast majority of all MMO's in the future.

Only EQ2 and WoW try to give you everything - EQ obviously has nothing for the "log in for an hour and accomplish something" crowd. That's a sadly small number of games considering how long its been.

Here's to hoping War/AoC offer enough uniqueness to make up for the fact that they have a more limited scope. Grind out X levels on boring NPCS, then go out and fight people. I'm not sure how that is supposed to be fun (why have grinding at all when the only good part of the game is killing other players?) but it could prove me wrong.

DAOC didn't.

[Draegan]

To be fair to LOTRO, the devs always said they are designing their game for the ultra-casual player. Which is why I quit after a month when the depth of the game was extremely shallow. It's a shame too, best dungeon/sound/world environment design, in my opinion, in the market to date. Especially the dungeons, they are awesome.

[21_Blessings]

Originally Posted by Old Man Potter

Blizzard has lost's way due to the egos and self-indulgence of it's leads and managers. So they are planning a WoW movie? What nonesense. I suppose Chris Metzen always wanted to "direct". What's next a WoW TV show or a WoW Saturday morning cartoon? Someone at Vivendi needs to walk into the Blizzard offices and throw a pail of water on these clowns and tell them to get back to making a real MMO.

Haha @ 'someone at vivendi'

Oh the irony.

[Jadn]

But what has there been to challenge WoW realistically for the top spot? LOTRO? Vanguard? Some EQ1/2 expansions?

Its easy to sit on top of the hill when nobody can even get halfway close to reaching the top to compete with you. I think Warhammer or AoC will have enough people interested in just seeing "what its about" first hand that they could grab some WoWers. The key is to not just completely fuck it with a shitty game (see: Vanguard).

[Manseed]

Originally Posted by Old Man Potter

Happy customer base? I've never seen WoW players unhappy as they are right now in-game and on the forums. Arena PVP is a cancer that is rapidly consuming the rest of WoW right now thanks to that blundering imbecile Tom Chilton. There is no reason to do normal instances right now as PVP rewards are much better. Guilds are having a touch time recruiting and many are starting to fold -- adding insult to injury after Blizzard destroyed the 40 man raiding guild paradigm with BCE. Take away the reason to join a guild and you can kiss the real WoW goodbye.

.

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

don't matter dick to the 95% of the population that is still working on beating Scarlet Monastary.

[Neric]

None of these games will have a chance against Wrath of the Lich King.

The game that I am interested in is Darkfall, because that's the game that Vanguard stole many ideas from. It's interesting to see if the original will be better than the copy even though it is quite ironical that the copy got released first. The failure of Vanguard may have casted doubts on the Darkfall crew, that's why I assume they went into the tank again.

P.S.: Expect the WoW expansion to be released right when AoC and WHO are about to hit the shelves. That's a logical move and Blizzard has pulled it off with Vanguard already.

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Neric

The game that I am interested in is Darkfall

yes, it's the one shining bastion of light amidst a sea (a giant, giant sea) of complete and miserable garbage.

i just pray once i reach the end of that tunnel, the light is shining. not dismally dim and barely lit.

[Wilfan]

The only light at the end of the Darkfall tunnel are the lights of the (long overdue) Bankruptcy Express train.

[Inconsiderable]

Originally Posted by Wilfan

The only light at the end of the Darkfall tunnel are the lights of the (long overdue) Bankruptcy Express train.

DF got a what? Another 20 million? or so last year and most likely they will selfpublish. I doubt they go bankrupt like that.
If we believe the Devs ("Open Beta 2002 Q4!"), they have a beta client ready to go and since some point last year they have already more features in than planned at release, and keep adding more - reason? They explain it with still looking for publisher that fits their needs and planning to selfpublish. Its kinda hard to believe that everything is ready to go but they dont start a beta, because they dont set up server as long as its not 100% sure if selfpublish or publisher - when at the same time their df movies/screens dont even show NPCs in the cities.

Originally Posted by Salshun

I can't see WoW failing. I just can't.

Look at Everquest. While it started as this incredible game it just got so bad so slowly that we just woke up on day and realized we had been getting ass fucked for 3 years.

And I honestly think Blizzard has a bigger dedication to their customers than SOE did. Blizzard wants to fix problems, they listen to their customers for the most part, etc. They want a happy customer base.

When you have a game this successful and dominating, combined with its industry recognition, limitless resources, and developers that listen...it's almost impossible to sink that ship.

Let me quote the important lines:
"Look at Everquest"
"realized we had been [...] fucked for 3 years"

How long are you playing WoW now? Maybe this time it takes you 4 years because the quality of WoW compared to EQ. I mean, I just dont get how someone can still pay Blizzard for WoW that isnt one of the 9 million mmo newbs that never played another mmo before. You play the first time, its awesome. Looks cool, easy to learn and you constantly win. There is no way in hell you can be bad at WoW. No one will stop playing it thinking "oh damn, im just not good enough" or "always losing isnt fun". Mindless, unchallenging.
You meet cool people, quest around, do some pvp and think its great that people dont run away because your red name reads Murderer Lord IGriefYouFag. First battleground are a blast, because you long since forgot was good pvp was like. And before you even noticed it, you are busy raiding 5 days a week trying to get the last item of your 7/8 set that will never drop and you are so fucking addicted that you dont have time for your gf, friends or work when there is a raids, because the item you need could finally drop.
Oh yea, one day you wake up and realize the thing you said about your ass.

Some of my friends woke up when we started clearing MC back in the old days. Some woke up when they had to farm for AQ. Some even played burning crusade or pvp laddered before waking up. Some maybe buy wotlk.
In the end its addiction mechanics and grind content that keeps you playing, not a good game.

And if you honestly think Blizzard wants a happy customer base and not just their money, im sorry for you.

[Salshun]

Originally Posted by Inconsiderable

And if you honestly think Blizzard wants a happy customer base and not just their money, im sorry for you.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know Blizzard is all about the $. But to an extent you do have to please your customers or that will all go away. They couldn't implement a billion changes to the fundamentals of the game and still expect their bank account to grow fatter. So while, yes, they are going to do what they want they still have to do enough to keep their customers happy enough to keep giving them that credit card each month.

For me, someone that played MMO's for a long time, starting with EQ on launch day, through every expansion, on to E2 and then WoW, the novelty factor of the genre has definitely worn off. The games now have to do something that keeps me coming back that isn't based solely on playing this new and cool type of game.

No WoW memories are EVER going to be able touch my EQ memories, it just isn't happening. Running for 45 minutes to get to EC because it was rumored someone had a Ykesha blade or a Fungi tunic, pre-nerf rubi BP, Jboots or Testament of Venear farming, first time I ever kited a hill giant in the Karanas, etc. I could go on for pages. Somehow I was never able to get immersed into WoW like I did EQ. EQ just pulled me in like a fantastic book. EQ raids you felt like were a little short story you were reading.

So with that kind of history and fun, those kind of memories, I really don't know why WoW keeps me. WoW just feels like I'm going through the motions when I play. I clock in, do my dailys, farm some primals, maybe hit up Kara if enough guildies are on, clock out. Really it almost feels like a job. Maybe I keep it up because I love the genre and it's the best MMO out. Maybe I'm just a sadist. But then I remember not being bothered by EQ time sinks, like Ssra Temple or key farming, sometimes even enjoying them because I truly liked my guild, and the people in it, wanted us to progress as a team, etc.

I actually think I can say the sense of community in EQ was so amazing that I enjoyed key farming time sinks in EQ more than I enjoy doing PuG's with leet speaking idiots in WoW.

I've actually started going on Fileplant.com and grabbing new game demo's each week, trying to find a game that can keep me interested. I'm thinking I just need to find some awesome RTS, RPG etc to pry me away, maybe even go back and visit some old friends, like Half-Life, or give Master of Orion or the Civ series a try, seeing as how I hear nothing but good things and I've never played them.

[Esmo]

Originally Posted by Neric

P.S.: Expect the WoW expansion to be released right when AoC and WHO are about to hit the shelves. That's a logical move and Blizzard has pulled it off with Vanguard already.

I doubt it. Given the disappointment that Vanguard turned out to be and the apparent issues that both AoC and WHO are currently experiencing in their respective betas Blizzard would be foolish to do anything except deliver a polished WotLK in late summer. Otherwise, they are more likely to experience attrition as a result of boredom with the exsiting game than because something new came out.

Now - if they can adjust their release date a month one way or another to coincide with the release of one of the other two games they could (and from a business standpoint, should) but delaying it or rushing it (lol!) just to play bully is pointless at this juncture.