Shadowbane character wipe inc

[Cybsled]

City destruction DID have a role to play in pop troubles, although to be fair it was heavily compounded by bugs/glitches.

This was typical on most SB servers: One empire dominates, everyone gets raped, people can't build a city and get fedup/quit, dominating empire gets bored and quits.

The problem with the game is it did little to ensure a balance of power. The Death server used to have a pretty excellent balance of power that was eventually undone by bugs, glitches, and exploits. The server population literally dropped from a few thousand to less then a hundred in the matter of 2-3 weeks.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Lyenae

Don't fag up this thread claiming cause/effect with SB's PvP system and SB subscription declines.

You're right, because we wouldn't want to let history and facts get in the way or anything.

Bugs/exploits/etc...was why the game didn't get a huge population in the first place. The game being just a glorified reason to grief other people was the reason nobody stayed except those on top.

And now those on top can't fucking figure out why nobody wants to play a game like SB.

[Mkopec1]

SB exe was the thing that drove me away. That and the slideshow when more than 20 people were on my screen. But I attribute that more on my PC at the time than the game, (Go PIII 800mhz!!) although I did hear many people in sieges having the same problem. I did love the fucking music in that gamre though, it was spooky sounding.

It was a good idea what they did with Sb. Its definitely an idea that needs to be explored more and further refined. IMO cities cost too fucking much to build and to maintain in SB. So no wonder why people quit when their shit got destroyed. It was too much work to get it back.

[kedwyn]

The problem with games like SB, even if properly executed are they will eventually die out due to bottom feeding. You can't have truly open PVP with looting like SB and 2 years down the line expect people to be able to start up fresh. Its just about impossible.

Sure you can try and make friends but in reality very few guilds have any need of a noob, even fewer will want to sit there on protection duty keeping them alive and from losing all their shit all the while every other fag with aspirations of being the school yard bully is trying to ass rape you at every hunting spot.

When WoW actually had people world PvPing shortly after release they didn't seek out fair fights. You had max or near max players fagging up places like Tarren Mill or STV where the targets were substantially under their levels and they could often get away with many quick easy kills before enough people got pissed off an logged on their mains to clean it up. Anyone remember max level hunters sitting on roof tops in Tanaris sniping people? Booty bay?

I'm all for PVP but SB's issues aside it would have gotten to the point where people bottom fed until people get tired of it and quit. Eventually you end up with an empty server with only a few die hards remaining. People often blame game issues for population problems, the dreds on DAOC were famous for that but instead they fail to realize its the system itself that is flawed.

The # of people seeking that type of PVP is very low to begin with

Those that are interested tend to start right at server release

Those that come later are at a severe disadvantage due to bottom feeding

Most end up quiting and eventually there are no new players replacing those that leave

End result is these servers tend to die out faster than regular servers


Thats why you aren't seeing any major MMO's offering it because they know it ends up leading to a dead end street.




I'm tempted to give SB a try again with this reset and all but I just can't get myself back into that groove. That game had so much wrong with it but some things were just so fucking cool. Its a shame that good ideas will be left out of future games because the release was a total clusterfuck. Same with Vanguard and most other games that had a cool idea or two but in general sucked ass due ot piss poor implementation.

[Pinchandroll]

Originally Posted by kedwyn

Sure you can try and make friends but in reality very few guilds have any need of a noob, even fewer will want to sit there on protection duty keeping them alive and from losing all their shit all the while every other fag with aspirations of being the school yard bully is trying to ass rape you at every hunting spot.

Well, the good things (regarding this quote) about SB were:
-Leveling went very quickly
-Groups were up to 10 people, so often a gank squad couldn't even take the group they want to gank.
-Having a hunting ground near one of your nation's cities (back when there was a population) guaranteed you fairly decent protection, and you'd almost always know when enemies were in the area.
-You could group with people much higher level than you, and still get good exp, and the higher levels would often join these groups to farm $$ or camp a rune, so frequently low level groups were protected by higher levels.
-Due to nation politics, an experienced player with Track would almost instantly know if people on track were hostile or friendly, and if a friendly tries to gank you... their guild city would probably end up destroyed since nobody liked a backstabber.
-Loot very rarely mattered enough that you would feel frustrated after getting ganked and losing your inventory. All the best gear is made by high level city merchants, and the only time getting ganked would screw you is if you hadn't banked in a while, or had a high-level attribute / disc rune on you. In that case, you are stupid for not using a recall scroll, banking your goods, and getting summoned back by your healer which took about a minute tops.

[dy fey]

Originally Posted by kedwyn

The problem with games like SB, even if properly executed are they will eventually die out due to bottom feeding...Thats why you aren't seeing any major MMO's offering it because they know it ends up leading to a dead end street...

griefers will find their way man. no exceptions. there is no stopping the lulz train, and in it's wake lies a trail of tears, as long as the internet is old.
terrain sploits, yard sales, camp, zerg. shit man, the list goes on forever. an ever expanding lexicon of pissing people off. if there's two or more people in a java game, someone's out to fuck you. they're passionate, persistant and creative, three traits to be admired in my sincere opinion.

producers wrapping their product in a bubble wrapped world are gonna get torn to shit by the train, and every layer of shielding only serves to add another shovel to the coals.

so tell me then, why do we wall ourselves away in denial? if you template an online game with the intention of creating something pure and free of grief, you'll only find the pool you love so dearly closed due to aids. online games attract any variety of individuals, amongst whom include those who take great delight in fucking up someone's day, and it's no small market i can assure you. simply look at the success of playing the bad guy, a strategy wonderfully exploited by the team at rockstar, for instance.

i wouldn't argue for a moment that developers shouldn't make effort to protect it's loving playerbase. i would argue, however, that catering to them exclusively only serves to limit a key field of view, which i think should be embraced. until then, we'll never experience a truely open mmo.

griefers need a playground, by god, and until someone builds it, they're gonna fuck your candycane sandcastle to shit til you cry. a truely open world is inhabited by the kind and the cruel, and that's the game i want to pay for. a world shaped by the traits of it's inhabitants, be them good or bad. there's certainly not 10 million subscriptions standing by, but i think it's fair to assume there's a good number waiting on the challenge.

i don't mean to attack you kedwyn man, and you brought up some very, very good points. i'm just trying to portray my opinion on the matter in light of your post. haha /rant

[Blackguard]

Who is planning on firing up Shadowbane after the wipe? And, what server are you going to play on (assuming there are still two)?

I'll at least roll up a new character after saying my final goodbyes to my 60 Crusader, who I may remake.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by dy fey

griefers will find their way man. no exceptions. there is no stopping the lulz train, and in it's wake lies a trail of tears, as long as the internet is old.
terrain sploits, yard sales, camp, zerg. shit man, the list goes on forever. an ever expanding lexicon of pissing people off. if there's two or more people in a java game, someone's out to fuck you. they're passionate, persistant and creative, three traits to be admired in my sincere opinion.

producers wrapping their product in a bubble wrapped world are gonna get torn to shit by the train, and every layer of shielding only serves to add another shovel to the coals.

so tell me then, why do we wall ourselves away in denial? if you template an online game with the intention of creating something pure and free of grief, you'll only find the pool you love so dearly closed due to aids. online games attract any variety of individuals, amongst whom include those who take great delight in fucking up someone's day, and it's no small market i can assure you. simply look at the success of playing the bad guy, a strategy wonderfully exploited by the team at rockstar, for instance.

i wouldn't argue for a moment that developers shouldn't make effort to protect it's loving playerbase. i would argue, however, that catering to them exclusively only serves to limit a key field of view, which i think should be embraced. until then, we'll never experience a truely open mmo.

griefers need a playground, by god, and until someone builds it, they're gonna fuck your candycane sandcastle to shit til you cry. a truely open world is inhabited by the kind and the cruel, and that's the game i want to pay for. a world shaped by the traits of it's inhabitants, be them good or bad. there's certainly not 10 million subscriptions standing by, but i think it's fair to assume there's a good number waiting on the challenge.

i don't mean to attack you kedwyn man, and you brought up some very, very good points. i'm just trying to portray my opinion on the matter in light of your post. haha /rant

The griefers will run off all of the other players tho. That is what you aren't getting. When everyone else leaves, who is left to grief? And no developer is going to live with that kind of outcome. Griefers are the immature bullies of the MMO world, and deserve their place in MMO isolation awaiting their "open world".

[Jait]

Originally Posted by Sunder

The griefers will run off all of the other players tho. That is what you aren't getting. When everyone else leaves, who is left to grief? And no developer is going to live with that kind of outcome.

Well, the developers from Shadowbane didn't seem to take issue with it. Not that I blame them. But I quit, my guild quit, everyone I know quit, mainly due to the 12 year old griefer who found Shadowbane to be the perfect playground. Hell even a PUG could quickly turn into /t Jait you wanna help us gank these guys? We'll split the profit, wait till the next pull.

I hated that shit. I loved SB prior to that though, and maybe with this wipe they'll have all moved on to greener pastures. I'll definitely be playing after the wipe to find out.

[Sunder]

Originally Posted by Jait

Well, the developers from Shadowbane didn't seem to take issue with it. Not that I blame them. But I quit, my guild quit, everyone I know quit, mainly due to the 12 year old griefer who found Shadowbane to be the perfect playground. Hell even a PUG could quickly turn into /t Jait you wanna help us gank these guys? We'll split the profit, wait till the next pull.

I hated that shit. I loved SB prior to that though, and maybe with this wipe they'll have all moved on to greener pastures. I'll definitely be playing after the wipe to find out.

I would say a complete wipe of the servers, forcing them to offer the game for free instead of having paying customers, and making changes in the way cities are built/defended is "taking issue" with the problems caused by running off the major portion of your fanbase.

[Hatorade]

I will be checking this out after the wipe lets all agree to play on whichever server is the first choice like the one at the top. I will be going tank class for once.

[Pinchandroll]

Before I stopped playing I had 5 level 75 bards, all different specs. I believe 2 or 3 mages, one irekei specced in magebolt and DoT's, one human specced in dissonance (was that the main bardsong nuke...?), and another ???. Then I had 2 rogues, one specced purely for bow dmg / disabling, and the other specced in nukes with some bow thrown in.

I'm not sure what I liked best... but I'll probably play after the wipe and start another bard. Though I have read that they redid chants and songs completely, and you can't keep selo's up all the time, and if that's true I might not even want to make another bard because half the reason I played one is so I could escape almost any situation with snare / dispel / root / selos.

[Hatorade]

^^ yeah no idea what I am getting myself into but if I want to be able to take A LOT of damage what race/class spec or whatever is best? I don't really care about damage.

[Jabberwhacky]

You don't care about damaging other people in a PvP game? You're going to bore them to death?

[Hatorade]

Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky

You don't care about damaging other people in a PvP game? You're going to bore them to death?

I want to be near impossible to take down....I want to wade through the masses and piss them off by taking so long to kill me. That is my goal. Damage comes second.

Besides if I know what the best tank is great, i'm sure I can do dmg even as a tank.