[WoW]: The Honor Grind Chronicles - Page 11

Gnome Eater · 01-24-2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dendory

The current MMO gamers are ridiculously spoiled, and the worse is they don't realize it.

This guy wants to go from a newly 70, who just started playing, to having a full set of epic gear, while playing casually. And the 3 months play time period seems "over the top" for him.

Wow. That's all I have to say. That and I'm sad this is what people expect of MMOs now.

I am completely happy that sadistic fucks that require their enjoyment to be validated by how much they pounded their testicles are now completely sidelined.

I was a hardcore raider in EQ. I am a hardcore raider in WoW, I cleared Illidan etc, I have full honor PvP gear, and I have no real need for more honor gear, and I still think the honor grind is complete bullshit and needs to be changed.

It is completely mindless, it forces you to play alongside morons, and more often than not you are forced to earn honor along the dregs of your server, and your own performance has a marginal effect on the rate of your gear acquisition.

The honor grinding is the last relic of grinding left in WoW.

Want to change honor grinding? Make all honor gear available as arena gear very cheaply, or purchasable using a moderate amount of heroic badges. In short, you should be able to obtain vindicator heroic gear for the cost of roughly 25-30 badges.

Make the PvP daily award 5000 honor, BUT, make it that you have to win two games in a row in order to be awarded the honor. The nail in the coffin for honor grinding for me is that I hate every single fucking retard on alliance side, and every moment I spend fighting alongside joe mcret, the alliance paladin who never blesses anyone, opens up with HoJ, and who has never casted a heal in his career reminds me of the times spent camping shards for the VT key.

Jerkinder · 01-24-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taantric

List of gear

No fucking shit purple gear is better than blue gear. You're missing the whole point. You're planning to grind 3.5 months to get PVP gear that is MARGINALLY better in PvE than the 5 man blues you can get in 2 weeks. TOPS. Go cry me a river. Oh and use a brain next time.

Dynalisia · 01-24-2008, 03:02 AM

Most of the complainers over here are probably over their gaming prime now and the new job, girlfriend and homelife prevents them from raiding, but they still got this huge ego they built up in the past 10 years that makes them too snobby to grind out their uber-approximation in the BG's. So now they come with all kinds of stories about how everything is not worth their time and bad game design if things don't fit in the 2 hrs a night their better halves alloted them for their crazy gaming habit.

Guess what? Right now, you can just chip away from 3 months and have a fighting chance to stand tall in a game where more effort is more power. If you played any other game based on the same principles you would nothing at all compared to the people that play as much now as you used to play years ago, you wouldn't even be able to PRETEND you're uber anymore. I actually think that is pretty amazing and I actually applaud it. It's just too bad that most people don't even see the reality through the melancholy tears of their gaming years.

slitz · 01-24-2008, 03:28 AM

While I really don't share the concern of the original poster, I do understand it.
WoW have become such a huge success not only in the MMORPG department but also in the E-sport department, with its Arena tournaments.
Perhaps there are people out there that see the game from a different point of view than what a normal MMO player would do? Perhaps some people see the game simply from a E-sport point of view.
With that view in mind, the game is completely broken, while in the MMO view it's perfectly normal (a bit too easy in fact). Who the hell would want to play a counter-strike tournament if you had to spend 3-4 months just getting the option to buy glock, M14 and the vest, and another 2-3 months to be able to buy the whole suit (vest + helmet) and some grenades? I certainly wouldn't play such game 8)
So while I do not agree that it's too hard to get the necessary items, I probably would agree if the whole purpose of me playing the game was to play in the arena. Fortunately for me, I see more fun aspects than that in WoW.

Gnome Eater · 01-24-2008, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynalisia

Guess what? Right now, you can just chip away from 3 months and have a fighting chance to stand tall in a game where more effort is more power. If you played any other game based on the same principles you would nothing at all compared to the people that play as much now as you used to play years ago, you wouldn't even be able to PRETEND you're uber anymore. I actually think that is pretty amazing and I actually applaud it. It's just too bad that most people don't even see the reality through the melancholy tears of their gaming years.

My complaint with BG's is that since I am a very very good player and play alongside very good players, I get to earn get much faster than the mouthbreathers raiding/doing heroics. While joe mcret might take 2 hours to get 4 badges from the easiest heroics, I can do Karazan in 2 hours and get an insane amount of badges + void crystals.

The only people who feel the current honor grind is healthy are masochists that feel that the only way they can enjoy a game is if somehow it is completely unfun. They think that time-consuming makes it somehow difficult. They are the lost Vanboys, who would demand that the game pile as many artificial limitations and painful grinds so somehow they could feel special and above 'wow-kiddies'.

Taantric · 01-24-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerkinder

No fucking shit purple gear is better than blue gear. You're missing the whole point. You're planning to grind 3.5 months to get PVP gear that is MARGINALLY better in PvE than the 5 man blues you can get in 2 weeks. TOPS. Go cry me a river. Oh and use a brain next time.

And you are a fucking retard. Try PvPing in that 5man blue gear Sherlock.

SalaciousTunare · 01-24-2008, 04:31 AM

I think forced grouping, shared honor, and all that shit needs to be removed.

I remember on my mage getting rank 11 on my own. Rarely if ever was I in a premade. If I was in a premade it was because one of the premade's people were away from keyboard or whatever.

I was proud I got rank 11 on my own, I was proud when I got 389 honor for solo killing a rank 14 warrior or rogue in AB.

Bring back that old system for gaining honor.

Honor should be awarded for actually killing people and participation. If I did max damage or healing in a battleground I should be compensated accordingly. Likewise if I did under 10k healing and under 5k dmg as a druid/paladin in a 30 min game, my account should automatically be deleted.

I agree that right now, you are way more at the mercy of the retards in your battleground than ever before. Trying to explain to retards that a 10 min 200-300 honor AV loss is better than a 30 min turtle win, is getting really old.

The underlying problem is that retards who can't hack it in a heroic, don't get their badges. Retards in a battleground however, still get their tokens and honor.

I miss the old system where the people with retarded specs were shunned in pvp, did not get invites in the group, then got almost zero honor cause they never killed anyone.

Those were better days where playing well meant you climbed the ladder quickly, while playing like shit meant you got nothing.

Change the reward system for participation, add Half Life 2 achievements that open up new rewards daily quests or bonus honor. Three capping WSG, five capping AB, etc should open up bonuses.

The Hiram Key · 01-24-2008, 04:49 AM

Is it possible that resiliance is the key to all the issues here ? Stats are important, but it's really resiliance that prevents newbies to 70 and PVPing from being competitive, way more then an extra 10 stamina or an extra 15 strength.

I have to wonder, in hindsight, if resiliance has had the intended impact on the game. I can see the benefits (people live longer and less insta-gibbing) but I think the negatives out weigh the positives by far. Barring entry for newbies into PVP, creating an elite class of players that are essentially untouchable except by each other, breaking certain weapon types and specs (dagger rogues) and so on.

Seems like resiliance may be doing more harm then good to the game currently.

Abysmal · 01-24-2008, 05:04 AM

why so many replies? it's not that hard. alliance sucks balls as a pug. just sit through the minimum number of wsg, eos, ab, and get your marks. farm ab for honor and you're done. i just hit 70 recently and in one weekend i picked up two purple items from pvping. i didn't even play all day.

TheCutlery · 01-24-2008, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taantric

And you are a fucking retard. Try PvPing in that 5man blue gear Sherlock.

No, you're a fucking retard for trying to say that you should be handed gear because the best you can do is 5khp at level 70.

There are many steps between PvP gear and where you're at. You refuse to even consider them a possibility.

Tindel · 01-24-2008, 06:13 AM

geeh wtf just switch server if yours are so horrible. I cant understand how you can sit and complain about 2hour AV . Id never settle for something as shitty as that. I get pissed off if i have to wait for more than 1min.

With a 1min AV wait, and in my battlegroup horde looses 80% of all AV's. I can still easily get 1500honor per hour. So about 3-4k honor for 2hours of play every night. That gives ya more than one epic per week, guaranteed.

I geared my fresh lvl70 rogue in no time at all, sure i play alot more than 2 hours a day, but still. One epic every week that is endgame comparable for many classes sure aint bad at all.

The Ancient · 01-24-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makata

Rank 12/13 gear had a LOT more stamina and (usually) more pvp-oriented set bonuses and was far better than anything you could have gotten in a raid. I had more health on my hunter than most pvp'ing warriors in their precious raid gear.

Boy you'd like to believe that I'm sure after you extended that effort but it simply wasn't true. AQ gear surpassed the PvP Epics and Naxx gear destroyed it.

But yeah...after they finally upgraded it, it was better than BWL gear for PvP

Northerner · 01-24-2008, 06:33 AM

Meh, perhaps the easy answer is just to add some resilience gear to crafting. You know, mostly blue shit with non-amazing stats that would cover off some off slots for PvPing and working on that arena or honor-farmed stuff.

It wouldn't even have to be very useful overall but just enough resilience to not be completely gimped against S1 opponents like dungeon and T4(+) loot is now. Obviously the PvP specced gear dropping in raids wasn't popular.

Neric · 01-24-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azrayne

That's easy to solve.

4 - 6 gametypes (CTF, resource competition, deathmatch, whatever). 5 - 10 or so maps for each. Players queue by gametype instead of a map by map basis, map is randomly selected ala. arena maps, use the current rotating 'weekend bonus' system to be sure that people don't flock to one gametype.

Problem solved. Fuck it wouldn't even take that much effort on Blizzard's behalf, but they'll fix PvP around the same time Vanguard will need to open a new server (never).

That's actually a pretty cool idea.

I can even remember something like this from Novalogic's Delta Force. They had a fixed rotation of maps and if you wanted to join the game you had to play on that map until the next one became available which happend on a win condition or once a fixed timer ran out (this could require a better solution with the BG-cluster-system). Overall there should be at least a snow (Alterac/Winterspring), desert (Tanaris/Barrens), jungle (Stranglethorn), forest (Azsara/Felwood) and a highland theme (Arathi/Mulgore).

I would say this isn't even that difficult, because lots of the areas in Alterac are generated with the help of modules for instance. Some guy who managed to climb all the way to the top of the zonewalls found a tent and similar useless stuff like that which clearly proves this. Even a small team of designers could create such a zone within a couple of days. Ballancing it and all the fine tuning is a bit more difficult of course.

Vitae · 01-24-2008, 07:03 AM

If you're on stormstrike alliance, get a large group of competent people together and just premade AV. It has instant queues for alliance, so it's not hard to get a majority into the same BG. Bam, 2k+ honor/hour.

That said, I recently rolled up a druid due to my paladin emoness. He hit 70 around a month ago, has a bit under a week /played at 70. His armory is here (his lifetime HKs are disproportionately high, as he was a twink BG alt for ages). It took about two weeks to be able to compete in 1850+ arenas - and while druids aren't as gear dependent as warriors or what have you, it's still a pretty huge factor. The vindicator stuff flushed out with karazhan/za epics and some season 1 gear is enough to at least compete, though.

01-24-2008, 05:04 AM	#159 (permalink)
Abysmal Blackologist Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,511 +1 Internets	why so many replies? it's not that hard. alliance sucks balls as a pug. just sit through the minimum number of wsg, eos, ab, and get your marks. farm ab for honor and you're done. i just hit 70 recently and in one weekend i picked up two purple items from pvping. i didn't even play all day. __________________

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01-24-2008, 03:02 AM	#153 (permalink)
Dynalisia Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The land of sunshine Posts: 1,673	Most of the complainers over here are probably over their gaming prime now and the new job, girlfriend and homelife prevents them from raiding, but they still got this huge ego they built up in the past 10 years that makes them too snobby to grind out their uber-approximation in the BG's. So now they come with all kinds of stories about how everything is not worth their time and bad game design if things don't fit in the 2 hrs a night their better halves alloted them for their crazy gaming habit. Guess what? Right now, you can just chip away from 3 months and have a fighting chance to stand tall in a game where more effort is more power. If you played any other game based on the same principles you would nothing at all compared to the people that play as much now as you used to play years ago, you wouldn't even be able to PRETEND you're uber anymore. I actually think that is pretty amazing and I actually applaud it. It's just too bad that most people don't even see the reality through the melancholy tears of their gaming years.

01-24-2008, 03:28 AM	#154 (permalink)
slitz euro scum Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 901 -21 Internets	While I really don't share the concern of the original poster, I do understand it. WoW have become such a huge success not only in the MMORPG department but also in the E-sport department, with its Arena tournaments. Perhaps there are people out there that see the game from a different point of view than what a normal MMO player would do? Perhaps some people see the game simply from a E-sport point of view. With that view in mind, the game is completely broken, while in the MMO view it's perfectly normal (a bit too easy in fact). Who the hell would want to play a counter-strike tournament if you had to spend 3-4 months just getting the option to buy glock, M14 and the vest, and another 2-3 months to be able to buy the whole suit (vest + helmet) and some grenades? I certainly wouldn't play such game 8) So while I do not agree that it's too hard to get the necessary items, I probably would agree if the whole purpose of me playing the game was to play in the arena. Fortunately for me, I see more fun aspects than that in WoW.

01-24-2008, 04:31 AM	#157 (permalink)
SalaciousTunare Idiot Prodigy Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,143 -13 Internets	I think forced grouping, shared honor, and all that shit needs to be removed. I remember on my mage getting rank 11 on my own. Rarely if ever was I in a premade. If I was in a premade it was because one of the premade's people were away from keyboard or whatever. I was proud I got rank 11 on my own, I was proud when I got 389 honor for solo killing a rank 14 warrior or rogue in AB. Bring back that old system for gaining honor. Honor should be awarded for actually killing people and participation. If I did max damage or healing in a battleground I should be compensated accordingly. Likewise if I did under 10k healing and under 5k dmg as a druid/paladin in a 30 min game, my account should automatically be deleted. I agree that right now, you are way more at the mercy of the retards in your battleground than ever before. Trying to explain to retards that a 10 min 200-300 honor AV loss is better than a 30 min turtle win, is getting really old. The underlying problem is that retards who can't hack it in a heroic, don't get their badges. Retards in a battleground however, still get their tokens and honor. I miss the old system where the people with retarded specs were shunned in pvp, did not get invites in the group, then got almost zero honor cause they never killed anyone. Those were better days where playing well meant you climbed the ladder quickly, while playing like shit meant you got nothing. Change the reward system for participation, add Half Life 2 achievements that open up new rewards daily quests or bonus honor. Three capping WSG, five capping AB, etc should open up bonuses.

01-24-2008, 06:13 AM	#161 (permalink)
Tindel Rar Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 335 +0 Internets	geeh wtf just switch server if yours are so horrible. I cant understand how you can sit and complain about 2hour AV . Id never settle for something as shitty as that. I get pissed off if i have to wait for more than 1min. With a 1min AV wait, and in my battlegroup horde looses 80% of all AV's. I can still easily get 1500honor per hour. So about 3-4k honor for 2hours of play every night. That gives ya more than one epic per week, guaranteed. I geared my fresh lvl70 rogue in no time at all, sure i play alot more than 2 hours a day, but still. One epic every week that is endgame comparable for many classes sure aint bad at all.

01-24-2008, 06:33 AM	#163 (permalink)
Northerner Shiny Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,761	Meh, perhaps the easy answer is just to add some resilience gear to crafting. You know, mostly blue shit with non-amazing stats that would cover off some off slots for PvPing and working on that arena or honor-farmed stuff. It wouldn't even have to be very useful overall but just enough resilience to not be completely gimped against S1 opponents like dungeon and T4(+) loot is now. Obviously the PvP specced gear dropping in raids wasn't popular.

01-24-2008, 07:03 AM	#165 (permalink)
Vitae Fires of Heaven WoW Officer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 321 +2 Internets	If you're on stormstrike alliance, get a large group of competent people together and just premade AV. It has instant queues for alliance, so it's not hard to get a majority into the same BG. Bam, 2k+ honor/hour. That said, I recently rolled up a druid due to my paladin emoness. He hit 70 around a month ago, has a bit under a week /played at 70. His armory is here (his lifetime HKs are disproportionately high, as he was a twink BG alt for ages). It took about two weeks to be able to compete in 1850+ arenas - and while druids aren't as gear dependent as warriors or what have you, it's still a pretty huge factor. The vindicator stuff flushed out with karazhan/za epics and some season 1 gear is enough to at least compete, though.