Lineage 2 Trial

[Hooby]

Originally Posted by Hachima

I think the biggest turn off for me was the horrible wanna be WASD system and having to resort to point click movement.

Was L2 the one where WASD felt like horribly unresponsive ice skating?

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Praetor

I disagree -- it completely is. First off, at what point in time was that your experience? Maybe long after release when farmers had taken over Cruma and their high-level "enforcers" killed people who got in the way, but that was never my experience there.

When was that my experience? Let me think, it was around a few weeks after release and ALL of them were PLAYERS. So try again.

[Ossoi]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

When was that my experience? Let me think, it was around a few weeks after release and ALL of them were PLAYERS. So try again.

lineage 2 was the best PvP experience I've had in any game so I totally disagree with your assessment. I played from open beta until the release of WoW and the combination of open, world, siege PvP and the associated politics and drama mean L2 shits all over WoWs horrible pvp implementation.

Cruma Tower was held successfully for a short period on my server, sieghardt, it didnt last very long as the clans denied entry soon banded together to take it back. The uneasy co-existence and resulting tension between the rival factions levelling there was great.

My faction then held Antharas Lair for a time and being able to slaughter anyone we didnt want to level there and then rush deep into the core to work off the karma was amazing.

Sieges: Our alliance of 3 clans took the first 3 castles no problem...which pissed off the entire server, the result 200 people vs 1500, we didnt take the 4th castle until the 3rd or 4th attempt and we only took it with literally seconds to go. The best part about that siege was that in our alliance was really a kind of unholy alliance between my clan, the regulators (pk guild) and defenders of order (anti pk) and it really took alot of political maneouvring to convince the defenders that we didnt have any "evil" intent....the 4th castle to fall was planned to go to the defenders yet because we had the entire server trying to stop us every clanleader from our alliance was trying to cast the capture spell on the castle altar..so when one of my guys took it with 5 seconds to go and the server got "The Regulators have captured the castle" the obvious assumption was that we had stabbed the defenders in the back.


In short, open world pvp gives so many amazing gameplay opportunities, yeah griefing is possible and likely but if you don't like it then don't play.

[Praetor]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

When was that my experience? Let me think, it was around a few weeks after release and ALL of them were PLAYERS. So try again.

On which server? I played on Kain from day one of open beta, for 5-6 months or so, I spent tons of time in Cruma when it was absolutely packed with people, before farmers made it there, and in fact you'd have a dozen people milling around the "lobby" area LFG in case a group had an opening. I certainly was never ganked zoning in, and while I do remember PvP over rooms at times, it was even and same-level groups fighting over a set of spawns (after one group was in a room, and another group came in and started stealing their spawns, each refusing to leave, etc., until someone attacked someone else).

I think the biggest turn off for me was the horrible wanna be WASD system and having to resort to point click movement.

It's not a WASD game. WASD was something they added after early beta, as a token gesture, but the thing with Lineage is that 100% of pathing and collision are server-side. You click to select coordinates that you want to move to (or an enemy to move towards and attack), and the server handles the pathing. You aren't moving client-side, with your client telling the server where you are. When you press "W" in L2 it's basically mimicking you clicking your mouse a foot in front of your character -- the reason it feels terrible is that it's basically a series of rapid "clicks" that the server has to process, and which your client then handles accordingly. Personally I never minded the click-to-move approach at all. It also has the significant effect of eliminating speedhacking or teleport-hacking and such entirely, and minimizing the effect of latency. It's an 3rd-person-POV game that you play like you would Warcraft III, not WoW. I don't really see that as inherently inferior; just different.

[Quineloe]

Maybe you leveled too slow because I am talking about the time where only the top % of players was high enough for cruma.

It's not a WASD game. WASD was something they added after early beta, as a token gesture, but the thing with Lineage is that 100% of pathing and collision are server-side. You click to select coordinates that you want to move to (or an enemy to move towards and attack), and the server handles the pathing. You aren't moving client-side, with your client telling the server where you are. When you press "W" in L2 it's basically mimicking you clicking your mouse a foot in front of your character -- the reason it feels terrible is that it's basically a series of rapid "clicks" that the server has to process, and which your client then handles accordingly. Personally I never minded the click-to-move approach at all. It also has the significant effect of eliminating speedhacking or teleport-hacking and such entirely, and minimizing the effect of latency. It's an 3rd-person-POV game that you play like you would Warcraft III, not WoW. I don't really see that as inherently inferior; just different.

Except that the result of this system was that the client often displayed you in a completly different position than the server actually placed you. But maybe that's also just "different" to you.

[Praetor]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

Maybe you leveled too slow because I am talking about the time where only the top % of players was high enough for cruma.

Well, I wasn't playing 80 hours a week, no, but I did play what I'd consider to be a "lot." (I was also a knight, which obviously wasn't the best solo-grinding class as compared to archers and nukers.) I was generally ahead of the curve, but certainly behind the very very top players at any given point in time. I prioritized cash efficiency over exp efficiency, so I generally outgeared much higher-level players who were poor.

Anyway, if you were among the very top % of players, then who exactly were these people who were so much higher than you and ganked you at every turn? If the first people to get to Cruma wanted to keep it to themselves to prevent others from catching them, until enough people reached those levels that it was no longer possible to keep them all out, then that's their prerogative. Get friends to go with you for protection, join their group so they don't gank you, or go elsewhere to level. That's open PvP.

Except that the result of this system was that the client often displayed you in a completly different position than the server actually placed you. But maybe that's also just "different" to you.

Not "often" unless your connection sucked (and if you were playing on early US servers from EU, it probably did). Latency is latency. If you click on a distant mob or some point and then you have a lag spike, you'll freeze in place on your screen, and then rubber-band to where you actually are when the server can talk to your client again. On the other hand, you still actually went where you wanted to go, attacked the mob you wanted to attack, etc., instead of standing there helpless while you were lagged.

With client-side movement/collision, you keep moving on your screen, and it "feels" smoth, and maybe you try to attack something, but on the server you're just standing still or autorunning in some random direction, and then when the lag spike ends, everyone else sees you rubberbanding. Never tried to melee someone in WoW who had terrible ping/packet loss, and could never quite get in melee range of them because they kept bouncing around erratically?

Like I said, the systems have their pros and cons.

[Clug]

I played on Bartz from release till about 6-8 months in.

First char was a rich ass warsmith named Puggly that I made tons of money selling soul shots and spirit shots with, if you played on Bartz at release most likely you bought SS from him at one point or another, heh. I then dual boxed up a chick combo shillien elder+hawkeye to around 53 and also got the warsmith to the 53 range as well before I couldn't stand the grind anymore.

Quit and sold all my characters and made around $1800, this was right before WoW was released.

Fun game, ruined by all the rang rang and the insane grind at level 50+.

[Awake]

Wrong. It's as carebear as it gets.

Uh, no. It's as PVP an MMO can ever become. Flagging system, Sieges, Fortresses, Real risks and you really get an adrenaline rush when you pvp, since you can lose something. Never felt that way in WoW or any other MMO. Sorry, you just didn't play L2 that much and/or got to experience the good parts of it.

What is that even supposed to mean?

That it has no peer.

This is entirely a matter of opinion and hardly gameplay related.

It's very gameplay related and impacts on the PVP aspects of an MMO.

That is so full of shit I don't even know where to begin. Characters look "ok", but they are not animated at all. They don't even blink. Oh and they all look the same - fat surprise with only 5 different hair style, 2 different faces and 2 different haircolors.
L2 the Clone Chronicle is a better title.
The world is also incredibly boring. It's basically one huge golf course with monsters randomly thrown on the ground.

The characters look amazing, you don't need that many animations. The world is stunning and very vivid and alive. Unreal engine also owns for their network code. Far from a golf course.

excuse me, what exactly is supposed to be hard about this game? When you only have 3-4 abilities with 2 of them being highly situational...

You really haven't played this game much. The hard parts about L2 is to actually be able to advance far and the politics, drama and castle sieges was like a fulltime job. Then again, I lead my alliance and we controlled the server pretty much. Only because of all the politics, hard dedication of the alliance and numerous other things. The grind itself is just time consuming, but if you add the fact that you had to fight for good exp spots, do politics, etc etc.. it became a big challenge.

Yes, you had a bunch of highlevels in Cruma tower that PKed anyone that entered it through the portal before they could even finish loading.
That's not PVP.

Everyone had equal chance to start leveling up. Besides, this didn't occur that much at all, and... now.. here's the kicker and where you fail to realise the true challenge of L2, since you're so used to cookie cutter and 'served on a silver plate' WoW.. Basically, if you have such an issue at Cruma Tower, you gather together a group of people to kick them out of that tower. It's what we did, it worked fine. We were the underdog from the start as well, it made it even more fun to form friendships and alliances to kill all the reds in Cruma Tower so it was more accessible for the public. Even after this, it was very tense in the Tower and you had to always watch your back. It was so much fun.

My experience of L2 only cover Open Beta into Chronicles 1. During this time there was little to no botting and farmers. Just some of it. if you played after this, sucks to be you.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Praetor

Not "often" unless your connection sucked (and if you were playing on early US servers from EU, it probably did). Latency is latency.

Absolutly wrong, it was not latency related in the least. If you were blocked by a player or monster from going somewhere the server ignored it, the client however stopped. It was very easy to duplicate this bug too, I often meleed at 50yard that way.

Uh, no. It's as PVP an MMO can ever become. Flagging system, Sieges, Fortresses, Real risks and you really get an adrenaline rush when you pvp, since you can lose something. Never felt that way in WoW or any other MMO. Sorry, you just didn't play L2 that much and/or got to experience the good parts of it.

Oh yes SIEGES ! Awesome! a few hours of PVP every fortnight. That is pure PVP right up your rectum

oh yes and I didnt play very long either. I had a 58 warlord, the highest warlord on the server too. I did some sieges too, I know that for most players Siege was running back to the castle from the second nearest town (so 15 minute run! NO PROBLEM!)

The characters look amazing, you don't need that many animations. The world is stunning and very vivid and alive. Unreal engine also owns for their network code. Far from a golf course.

I'd just love to sink a dozen screenshots on you, unfortunately I don't have them anymore. The characters didn't look amazing the 2,5 years ago when I played. Yes right, you don't need animations. That's so ridiculous right there.
I really like how you completly skipped the "5 hairs, 2 colors, 2 faces" complaint. Can't really argue against that, right?

You really haven't played this game much. The hard parts about L2 is to actually be able to advance far and the politics, drama and castle sieges was like a fulltime job.

Thank you for admitting that you need to play 10 hours a day to be competitive, thank you. Thank you for thinking that it's "hard" to simply play much - I actually agree, it's damn hard to play 10 hours straight every day in this POS game without gouging your eyes out -because that surely saves everyone here a lot of trouble when considering the value of your opinion.

[Hatorade]

Rhedd look what you have done..

[Sajko]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

oh yes and I didnt play very long either. I had a 58 warlord, the highest warlord on the server too.

Were you on Bartz by any chance?

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Sajko

Were you on Bartz by any chance?

No, I played on Sieghardt in the pre-beta and pay-beta then Hindemith in C1

[Sajko]

Ah ok.

You reminded me of this warlord on Bartz. He was a fucking retarded idiot.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Sajko

Ah ok.

You reminded me of this warlord on Bartz. He was a fucking retarded idiot.

well, go back to not posting you crazian schmuck.

[Sajko]

You're right. Time to lurk around here for a few more months before posting again.