SoE new move (or not so new)

[Miele]

Source: Live Gamer - The Trusted Source for Virtual Trading

Live Gamer Inc™ Partners with Funcom GMBH, Sony Online Entertainment,
10TACLE STUDIOS, Acclaim, GoPets LTD, and Ping0 Interactive Limited to Launch
Publisher-Supported Marketplace for Secure Virtual Trading

$24 Million Investment by Charles River Ventures, Kodiak Venture Partners, and Pequot Ventures


NEW YORK CITY, DECEMBER 17, 2007 – Live Gamer Inc™ (Live Gamer - The Trusted Source for Virtual Trading) today announced its introduction as the premier provider of a publisher-supported, secure platform for real money trading of virtual property. Live Gamer is partnering with top massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) publishers and virtual world operators worldwide, including Funcom GMBH, Sony Online Entertainment, 10TACLE STUDIOS, Acclaim, GoPets LTD, and Ping0 Interactive Limited. The company was founded by industry veterans and backed with $24 million in venture funding from Charles River Ventures, Kodiak Venture Partners, and Pequot Ventures.

Formalizing and Legitimizing the Existing Virtual Economy
Virtual trading today represents an estimated $1.8 billion in real money exchanged annually among MMOG players and virtual world inhabitants who buy and sell rights to use in-game goods, services, and characters . To date, such transactions have usually meant braving an unstructured, unsanctioned marketplace in which players lack protection from unethical traders, and do business in violation of the publisher's terms of service. By introducing a fully transparent, secure, publisher-sanctioned marketplace, Live Gamer helps protect content creators from the distorting impact of illicit trading on their intellectual property and provides a safe alternative for consumers around the world who spend millions of hours in-world every month.

"Virtual item trading is already transforming the way people experience MMOGs and virtual worlds, but in its traditional underground context, the impact could be as easily negative as positive for a given player or world. An economy this large clearly needs a legitimate trading infrastructure that serves the needs of each of its millions of participants," said co-founder and president, Andrew Schneider. "Live Gamer has developed a platform with all the integrity, security, and professionalism of any real-world marketplace, and we're working hand-in-hand with publishers to ensure a positive experience for every player."

Ensuring a Positive Game Play Experience
Unsanctioned trading has had an increasingly negative impact on many participants' and bystanders' game-playing experience. Live Gamer provides a toolset for publishers to preserve the integrity of the in-game economy and offer a legitimate alternative to "gold farming," in which players or organizations aggressively gather items of value within a game for solely commercial purposes, often through sweatshops of underpaid workers and/or automated methods that distort the in-world experience for other players. Live Gamer is the first provider to work with publishers to enable real money trading within their Terms of Service and End User License Agreements.

Said Trond A. Aas, CEO of Funcom, "Virtual trading has the potential to open an entirely new dimension for the player experience in some games, but it has also caused endless grief through the actions of gold farmers and fraud artists, as well as the generally poor quality of service to participants. Live Gamer makes it possible for publishers to satisfy players' growing demand for this type of activity in selected future games by providing a legitimate and balanced outlet that protects their experiences. We really look forward to offering this opportunity to players in our upcoming casual MMOG."

Game and Finance Industry Veterans
Live Gamer was co-founded by Mitch Davis and Andrew Schneider. Davis, the company's chairman, revolutionized the video game industry by pioneering in-game advertising with Massive Incorporated, which was subsequently acquired by Microsoft. He is also founder, chairman, and CEO of Brash Entertainment, a video game publisher focused on licensed IP. Schneider, Live Gamer's president, has been a digital entertainment industry leader and catalyst for emerging business opportunities at the cross-roads of entertainment and technology for over 14 years. He has held executive management positions at Sony Pictures Digital, NBC and Wind-up Records. Other company executives are gaming and Wall Street veterans, providing a mix of talent that combines Wall Street's best practices with in-depth knowledge of the gaming community.

On behalf of the board of directors, Mitch Davis said, "Even in illicit form, the virtual trading economy has proven that vast demand exists; now Live Gamer will allow this thriving marketplace to reach its full potential. We're confident in the Live Gamer team and its ability to execute successfully, together with the industry's leading publishers, to create a safe and easy option for real money trading."

About Live Gamer
Live Gamer is the leading provider for publisher-supported virtual item trading. Live Gamer's Wall Street-developed platform is trusted by top publishers worldwide and offers a turnkey solution for MMOG and virtual world operators to provide legitimate real money trading of virtual assets within their titles, facilitating a safe and fair online environment for all participants. Based in New York, NY, the company was founded by industry veterans and backed with $24 million in venture funding from Charles River Ventures, Kodiak Venture Partners, and Pequot Ventures. (www.livegamer.com)

I'm already vomiting at the idea of seeing this shit everywhere. Fuck you SoE (and Funcom too).

[Prova]

Is this supposed to mimic a SOE sanctioned player auctions site, or are they attempting to be the middle men in these market transactions as well? It seems like the only way they could effectively gaurntee safe transactions is if they are the party that's on the other end of the transfer, which seems to put the free market aspect of this deal in jeopardy. Unless they created some type of in game interfaces to facilitate this type of transfer, there'd be a lot of risk to still let the players handle the transfers themselves. I seriously doubt that they'd have the resources to hunt down every potential scam that went through their system due to letting the sellers trade directly with the buyers via the current trading infastructure in place.

Most of the difference in pricing that goes on in player auctions is related to percieved buyer security. If their system can put all sellers on a level playing field in terms of security, the first time seller who just wants to cash out can finally get a decent deal for his currency. It seems like the prices would also drop a bit in general, as the big time sellers don't have any excuse for their premium prices due to security being a non issue.

Unless they set up a auction-house type system, with paypal instead of gold, I see a lot of problems with what they're trying to offer. How can they claim security and reliability in these deals if all of the transfers would still be in the hands of the sellers? If not, are they going to hire their own massive team to provide the 24/7 service that a lot of the premium sellers offer? If they run their own team, what happens when a dupe outbreak comes and SOE, acting as the middle man, is sopping up all this excess that was put into the market?

However this plays out, it'll certainly play a huge role in the future of online selling for SOE games. I find it funny that they tote around the 1.x billion dollar number, when almost all of that comes from WoW and Lineage.

[Maxxius]

Sounds like an "if you can't beat em, join em" arrangement. I can only but see this encouraging even harder farming, since now people fighting over spawns are doing so because it puts sanctioned real money into their pockets.

[Greezer]

Originally Posted by Prova

Unless they created some type of in game interfaces to facilitate this type of transfer, there'd be a lot of risk to still let the players handle the transfers themselves.

From the companies website:

Live Gamer Key Features
Seamless In-Game Virtual Trading
Players can access the Live Gamer marketplace directly from within any participating game for uninterrupted game play and instant fulfillment.

Guaranteed Delivery
Anti-fraud mechanisms protect both sides of every transaction: buyers are assured of receiving purchased goods, and sellers are assured of receiving payment.

Flexible Commerce
A sophisticated marketplace engine gives players the option of both highest bidder and buy-now transactions.

A Level Playing Field
Live Gamer provides Publishers with a rich set of tools that allows them control and flexibility in managing the in-game economy to preserve balanced game play.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Miele

Trond A. Aas,

lol.

[Bristlebane]

As someone who has bought plat in EQ, gold in WoW, and accounts (but never farmed to sell,) I still don't like this.

I'm betting at least the majority of us here have bought or sold something in an MMO at one point.

However, I still don't like the idea of making it "legit."

[The Hiram Key]

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

As someone who has bought plat in EQ, gold in WoW, and accounts (but never farmed to sell,) I still don't like this.

I'm betting at least the majority of us here have bought or sold something in an MMO at one point.

However, I still don't like the idea of making it "legit."

The majority ? I am not so sure about that. You might eek that out because of wow and it's huge footprint, but I think if you throw 100 random online gamers (across all companies) and polled them, it would be alot less then 51 who paid real life money for in game items. Excluding of course, OCG's, or SOE Exchange server type deals, I am talking purchasing powerleveling, gold, items etc.

My magic 8-ball says it's probably less then 1/3rd, more like 1/4 of the 100 people polled. It's a significant share definately, but I don't think it's the majority.

[Dashal]

Virtual trading today represents an estimated $1.8 billion in real money exchanged annually among MMOG players and virtual world inhabitants who buy and sell rights to use in-game goods, services, and characters .

If thats true you'd have to be retarded not to do this.

[Prova]

Interesting. If they can pull off their claims, it will make EQ currency a lot more liquid. Before, if you wanted to 'cash out' of a server, you had to take a serious discount on your goods, unless you knew someone or had a serious selling history. Now, even small players can exchange small sums of currency for fair market value. For a server like FV, a system like this will create some sweeping changes. If SOE is getting some small commission % on the trades, it will probably give them inscentive to open more FV type servers, just from the increased sellling activity on those servers.

I agree with Bristlebane though, this sets a pretty bad precedence. It encourages people to subvert the natural way that that these games were made to play out. If they are using a commission, this also gives companies like SOE even more inscentive to create money sinks in games (more need for money, more buying, more commissions).

[Bristlebane]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

The majority ? I am not so sure about that. You might eek that out because of wow and it's huge footprint, but I think if you throw 100 random online gamers (across all companies) and polled them, it would be alot less then 51 who paid real life money for in game items. Excluding of course, OCG's, or SOE Exchange server type deals, I am talking purchasing powerleveling, gold, items etc.

My magic 8-ball says it's probably less then 1/3rd, more like 1/4 of the 100 people polled. It's a significant share definately, but I don't think it's the majority.

I'm not talking about random online gamers...I'm talking about people on THIS FORUM.

For instance, earlier this year, when we had that EQ 1 guild going on FV, probably a solid 80 percent of us bought plat, and that was like 50 people.

[Lyrical]

Originally Posted by Prova

If they are using a commission, this also gives companies like SOE even more inscentive to create money sinks in games (more need for money, more buying, more commissions).

That's why this is a bad idea. For example, now when you play a new SOE game, and you have to save for weeks for your mount, you'll be wondering if the devs designed the moneysink just to get you to spend real money on it. I can't see how I would ever play an SOE game where this was a part of the design (and it was across all servers).

[Dashal]

Originally Posted by Lyrical

For example, now when you play a new SOE game, and you have to save for weeks for your mount, you'll be wondering if the devs designed the moneysink just to get you to spend real money on it.

Definitely a down side. Even if the game had only half the money sinks of previous games you'd still get massive bitching about it on forums and 3 page emo dissertations on the downfall of modern gaming.

But there's obviously a market for it, I've yet to see it stopped in a game. Games have to figure out if legitimizing it is worth it to them.

[Zarcath]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

The majority ? I am not so sure about that. You might eek that out because of wow and it's huge footprint, but I think if you throw 100 random online gamers (across all companies) and polled them, it would be alot less then 51 who paid real life money for in game items. Excluding of course, OCG's, or SOE Exchange server type deals, I am talking purchasing powerleveling, gold, items etc.

My magic 8-ball says it's probably less then 1/3rd, more like 1/4 of the 100 people polled. It's a significant share definately, but I don't think it's the majority.

I'd think the low poll numbers would be due to the perceived danger and complexity in selling virtual property. If you were to ask how many of them WOULD sell, you'd have higher numbers then how many have actually gone through the process.

I take it this service will act like the gaming version of eBay? People could sell shit online before ebay but they were afraid of getting scammed/identity theft/too complicated. Now grandma roadshow can sell her knits on ebay with 10 minutes and a CC. This service will make things more accessible to general public. Which means the market will be flooded.

I'm a little bit confused at what LiveGamer actually provides to these companies though? Do they handle the secure servers that their clients games will connect to in-game?

edit: Holy fuck. George Scotto is the Customer Service Director. I'm pretty sure that was his old job title at SOE. Didn't know he left, but man he was quite the idiot when it came to EQ. He would be backstabbing mezzed shit lol. One time he got a group of us together to show some media people how EQ works (in-game demonstration). So our group of veterans, we're wearing test gear and have some GM buffs, head to umbral plains. Scotto runs out and pulls like 30 mobs and brings them back. All of us die, including the media people. So I guess they did get the full EQ experience.

[Miele]

I think the day people will no longer accept NBG loot even among friends because "it's money lolz" is the day MMOs will die and some new shit will take their place.

Honestly I'm concerned about this. I have no problems saying that if it comes in EQ2, I'll be gone before they can say "don't unsuscribe".

Funcom is in this too, what is that they are making now? Age of Conan?

[Pinski]

Originally Posted by Miele

I think the day people will no longer accept NBG loot even among friends because "it's money lolz" is the day MMOs will die and some new shit will take their place.

Honestly I'm concerned about this. I have no problems saying that if it comes in EQ2, I'll be gone before they can say "don't unsuscribe".

Funcom is in this too, what is that they are making now? Age of Conan?

I've got some good news, it's already came to EQ2. In fact, I don't think this is a big deal at all. Here's the reality, SoE is expanding the Station Exchange and with partnerships with other corporations is making it larger. What this means is very little, in fact I bet there will only be some servers with it enabled with no option of moving off of those servers but the option of moving on to them for free.