[Game Dev] What do you want?

[legat0]

Grumpy, I definitely see where you're coming from with those points heh, a lot of your likes/dislikes are right there with mine. Specifically the 'hide in plain sight' with stealth classes, I feel like when that happens the immersion level drops a bit.

Makata, I am a really big fan of the 'mana fatigue' idea, the [insert small amount of mana here] away from casting a spell always bugged me and that's one of the best ways against that I've heard of yet. The HP system honestly has bugged me for a while now too, exactly like you said, getting a sword slammed into you 50 times and being at half health is a bit silly. The problem I would forsee though with some sort of active dodge and parry system is how tedious it would be for the player, every fight, level 1-x and beyond, having to pay 100% attention to what is going on or die, it really would restrict players who have kids for example and might have to run off at the drop of a hat because of a sibling brawl. A system that allows for some twitch to mitigate or something would be great though in my personal opinion, but depending on how it's implemented it can really alienate a lot of players. Introducing something like that, though, would also allow players to exhibit more skill in the game, and could legitimately make up for a lack of gear for example.

Ninjarr, I think I misunderstood a bit of your first post, that clarify's things though. Things like that definately lighten the load when it comes down to it, making each character fun throughout the whole of the game would be where the new challenge lies. With the introduction of the different time periods I personally would like to be able to freely jump between them and be just as viable at my job in one time period as another (or else why would I ever visit the ones in which I am useless?), which I don't really see possible with that type of system. I don't know if you're suggesting that you can change between the settings freely, or if you're locked into one though so that could be the case. If you were locked into one time period, say, per server, I think it would still bring together a whole lot of players that typically would never meet as they enjoy games set in different periods and let them try out the other 'servers' in their spare time. With the ability to jump between periods it comes down to not making anyone feel useless if they have a sudden urge to go to the future (or past), cause if they do then you're pretty much locking them to just a few time periods (or maybe even just one) anyways.

[Ninajrr]

Firstly, the method of time travel can't be "any where, any time" since the eras' geography needs to be different (but not substantially different) to show change. I think Chrono Trigger's system was probably best, where there are many time portals scattered about which lead to random times (random in that you don't know when it goes, but it always goes to the same time). IMO, it shouldn't be super easy to get from time to time, rather the portals should be in higher level areas to add to their mysticism.

As far as combat, don't think of the rock-paper-scissors being connected to eras, rather to encounter types.

Certainly a steampunk tank will spend most of his NON-RAIDING time in his setting, it makes sense, but when it comes time to raid (group size>3) he might be needed elsewhere. Don't think of it as:

steampunk>prehistoric>post apocalyptic>high fantasy>steampunk,

Instead think of it as steampunk beats physical encounters. Obviously there will be a lot of physical encounters in X and Y eras, and fewer in Z and W, but all four will have them in some form.

[Mist]

Make a sci-fi game. Make it have starfighters and pew pew lasers. Wing Commander, X-wing and Privateer were some of the first games to make PC gaming popular, and yet no MMO has this type of gameplay. Fantasy has become and overdone fad fueled by too many bad movies and too many bad MMOs, becoming a self-perpetuating obsession of game makers lately.

[Jovec]

Dynamic game worlds with meaningful player-driven change.

WoW is pushing 200+ servers, and the game world on every one is in the exact same state. If we can ignore some of the BS caused by honor points/bgs and PVE progression/balance, there were red=dead servers where horde slaughtered, where alliance slaughtered, stalemates/equality, and horde vs alliance progression differences, yet the game state on each was identical.

Why couldn't heavy PVP servers see war-scorched terrain? The winning side control more "yellow" zones? Have economic differences like scare resources and higher prices due to fighting balanced by better spells/abilities from heavy combat usage compared to more peaceful servers? Why don't faction leaders (at least) provide some benefit to being kept alive/killed? As a contrived example, a dead Cairne could give Alliane +2.5% chance for better drops and Horde -2.5%. Now there is some incentive to kill him, and some to defend him. Respawn him at 2-4 RL weeks, with Horde being able to rez him at 1-2 weeks through some event.

Obviously true interactivity is far off, but there could easily be 20-50 game variables that could differ per-server. There would need to be some game mechanics to prevent complete dominance (A Cairne killed 3 times in a row decides he needs better body guards, the faction losing more land has a denser NPC guard presence since they are being pushed back, etc), but nothing says every game world has to be the same.

[I'm Rich Bitch]

For me the perfect MMORPG would be a immersive (read limited instances), sandbox world where I have freedom of choice. I want the fun of a FPS game and the depth of a MMORPG set in large virtual world with equal amounts of competitive gameplay and non competitive virtual activities such as strip clubs full of virtual tits and ass.

More specifically, I want the virtual world of Eve where I can command my ship like Ace Combat. Then, I can beam down to a planet and fight bad guys like in Tabula Rasa or just visit a strip club and chat with friends or play instruments in a band like in LoTRO.

I want the depth of the economy system like PoTBS but I want to be able to walk around my spaceship and perform activities within the ship and use my "hollow deck".

In combat, I want the group interaction and class dependency like in Everquest1 with the Archetype classes as in Everquest2. This breeds community. Community is lacking in the newer games.

Lastly, I want all this with the graphic detail of Vanguard and the system requirements and polish of WoW. Oh yea, and most important I don't want any fucking quests except maybe one or two overall storyline quests. XP and advancement comes from combat. The game would not contain any levels so everyone is eligible to group me with for objectives. XP would yield additional skills and uber equipment not levels.

And again, no stupid ass quests.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by legat0

To be....

I pointed out about a half dozen~dozen threads that would make great reading to get you started. Not to mention we have an entire sub-forum devoted to game development. Nothing you read in this thread will be something that hasn't already been stated in one of those. I can pretty much guarantee it. The only difference will be instead of, "Lotro was fun for the first few levels...but then it got boring fast as there was no high end content." will be "Tabula rasa was fun for the first few levels...but it got boring fast as there was no real high end contnet."

If you're unwilling to take my sound advice because of my 'personality' then I suppose it is your loss. There are hundreds of -excellent- suggestions just waiting to be fished out. Yet they're constantly ignored and it's an insult to posters when some fresh new "Hey guys, I'm a dev! LOOK AT ME!!!" poster comes out of the wood work and starts yet another, "What do you guys think?! Was VG good or bad?" thread.

the only way to make some changes is to speak up, no matter how many times you have to do it

Great idea! We haven't had a "Post your cool unique ideas for classes!" thread in awhile. I should start one of those so I can hear assholes talk about, "He'd be like a ranger, but with a pet!" like it's some new fresh idea.

Here's me speaking up: Tell us who you work for or stop wasting our time.

[legat0]

Sticktastic, I really like the basis of your ideas, they're pretty much all things that would help the success of a new game in a number of ways. Communicate Immediately is one that really hit home with the player side of me because there's nothing worse than not being able to login and having no idea what the problem is and if you have time to go get something to eat before it's fixed.

UnchainedAcolyte, I don't plan on making any promises heh, as I said I'm here to get a broader understanding of what the players would like to see in up and coming games. I really agree with your edit also, as far as one character able to do multiple things, that's about the only thing I liked about FFXI (not that I particularly liked the way it was implemented) but your character could be anything whenever you wanted to switch (although in that game it still felt like leveling alts.

Ninjarr, the more I hear the more similar it sounds to something we just recently talked about, I think someone actually mentioned something about periods excelling at different encounter types, it's kind of eerie heh. It's definately a solid idea, really would take a lot of consideration for the encounters and how they were set up in each period to make it worthwhile for everyone to go everywhere and mix with different people, sounds on the right track though with that mindset.

Mist, while I completely agree that fantasy feels overdone, I think what is really turning a lot of studios off to the sci-fi setting is the past success (or rather, lack thereof) of the MMOs that have been made with that setting. I'm not saying that's the reason for sure, but I believe it has a lot to do with it. I think a lot of it comes from the real desire that a lot of us have to play games in the first place, most people do it just for the opportunity to be someone they aren't, or do things they can't do in real life (which I'm sure you're aware of). And with that in mind, there IS a lot of people who instead of swinging a sword around want to be flying through space shooting everything with lasers, but the real challenge is making gameplay more fun than shooting lasers for 3 years of your life, cause as fun as it is in the beginning, the novelty usually wears off.

Jovec, I think you're on the right track as well, similar to Ninjarr, things that differ and make you a part of something bigger is a new direction I feel is on the rise.

I'm Rich Bitch, a game with true freedom is probably more than a while away, but the desire to experience it is what will help it come for sure. I know I would definitely enjoy being able to make the transitions through different playstyles that you mentioned.

Zehn, never did I say I was unwilling to take your advice, I would much appreciate it actually as you seem passionate about MMOs and I'm sure you have some great ideas. Again, unfortunately though, you're STILL jumping to conclusions, for example, implying that I haven't previously or won't read the threads you directed me to. The problem with reading those dead threads is that I don't get to exchange ideas, I only get to look at them. So, as I said, I would appreciate your ideas/advice because you seem quite passionate about games, but if you're not contributing then I really am quite dissapointed that you're detracting from my time replying and exchanging ideas with the people who are.


As for anyone who would like to continue discussions please feel free to IM me at pixelpile, or keep up the posting! I really appreciate the ideas and advice given so far, lots of good stuff!

[Clowns]

I would like to see more software developers start working with hardware folks to put us 'more' into the game. I know this sounds strange but we need to be able to experience your world in more depth than a flat screen monitor. I dunno, perhaps a specialized MMOG console?

[Usha Starchild]

I kinda agree with Zehn here.

It's like telling all your secrets to someone names "Sk8tergurl" over IM before you know....

[The Hiram Key]

You know what ? Brainstorming is cool, and people definately have some interesting and one off ideas that may or may not be cool in a game. But if you, as a developer, do not know what to put in your game, or how it is going to be, then you have no fucking business creating a game.

The vast, vast majority of us on this forum, know exactly what is good about any given game, and what sucks ass about the same game. We may differ slightly here and there, but overall, we know.

And you should too.

[legat0]

Clowns, honestly my opinions of games, non MMO related, as far as consoles and things go, the only games that have come out recently that I feel are making steps in the right direction are Guitar Hero 3, Rock Band, and as a console the Wii. If you think about it, those games are taking the story and putting it in your hands, they aren't games anymore, they're more of an experience, the story of the game is the one you tell your buddies about the next day. If games lean more towards this, having more immersion and having more interaction I think the players will really be revitalized. To get back on track though, an MMO with a unique interface like the guitar controller is for Guitar Hero, would be an amazing utility, the price becomes a question then, using something really unique could shut out some players who simply cant afford the hardware. (A touch pad for instance, a bit pricey to include with the game, but would provide some great interaction for casting spells through performing different finger/hand movements.)

Hiram, I'm not here saying 'design my game.' I'm here to see what kind of steps people would like the industry to take. It's like you said, most people here know exactly what is good or bad about a given game, but what about the game that hasn't come out yet? What makes that game good or bad, or maybe a better question is what COULD make that game good, or great? Someone had to stand up and say 'what about a game that uses a guitar for a controller.' That is innovation, and that is what I am talking about.

[Usha Starchild]

My next post:

[Game Dev] - New studio forming looking for talent.

Hello everyone,

XXxXxX games is opening our new studio, we are looking for talent in all areas. Please send your resume (and all your personal info) to xxxx@yyyyy.com.

Please be sure to include samples of your work, art if your an art guy, game designs if your a designer or quests if your name starts with the letter F.

We will happily use all the info you send us to open credit cards in your name and....

-----

Things like this are why its nice to know who your talking to.

[GaliemVaelant]

Originally Posted by Ninajrr

To make this short and to the point...time travel.

First, just as a note, we've all seen the advantages of capitalizing on nostalgia, and we've all experienced the excitement of nostalgia.

Now to the meat of the problem and my idea:

We all know that the environment of an MMO(RPG) completely directs the audience of the game. Being limited by this factor is a terrible burden on the industry. IMO, this is easily overcome with a bit of ingenuity, though I personally haven't seen it present itself in any significant manner.

What I would like to see is a culmination of the prime environments (High Fantasy, Steampunk, Prehistoric, Post Apocalyptic...) in a single game through use of time travel. Allowing for a game to have nostalgia within itself, as well as a living "history". The expansion of a game in this way allows for much more creativity in story, environment, and encounters. No long are you strictly held to the conventional "races", but now can explore "era-races". Additionally, the same applies for "classes", you open an opportunity for different "classes" to exist based on the era the character evolves in.

Now, this extension is far deeper than gameplay mechanics. Different game environments attract different audiences, as I mentioned. In having multiple settings in one game you allow for multiple communities to develop within the game which become the eras' societies, just as you as a developer would like to artificially create.

This idea really opens the doors for game design. Anywhere from "butterfly effect" expansions to "time quests", the game becomes an open canvas.

QFT, and so the above text could appear again in the thread. There's too much of the same old thing out there. A new spin on things would be nice.

[The Hiram Key]

One of you script kiddies start tracing this guys IP. Hartsman quits and we have a branny new secret dev who wants our ideas for a game ? On the same fucking day ?

Hello.

[Usha Starchild]

Originally Posted by The Hiram Key

One of you script kiddies start tracing this guys IP. Hartsman quits and we have a branny new secret dev who wants our ideas for a game ? On the same fucking day ?

Hello.

Impossible!

Scott writes much better than him.