[WoW] MP5 On Enhancement Gear - Page 4

Sithray · 11-30-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ancient

Or maybe they purposefully burned itemization points because enhancement shamans scale too well with STR. You really don't know. What you have to determine is can we perform competitively, and if not is it a result of talents or poor itemization. I really don't think the 14 STR shamans are missing from the s6 gear is such an issue.

Which is the general consipiracy theory. If they gave us this answer though, at least we would have an answer.

Granted, PvP gear is not in the same boat as T6 is. T6 is really where the problem lays. A shaman in Full T6 just can't compete in the DPS charts. They have to cut into Rog's leather to be able to do that.

Sorry if it seems we are going back and forth, it is kinda hard to communicate real time on a chat board. Luckily I have actually learned a lot during this thread.

Arbitrary · 11-30-2007, 02:16 PM

The item/point calculations shouldn't be uniform anyway. On class specific equipment there isn't any reason to charge everyone the same when the value of a stat is different for each class.

Lithose · 11-30-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sithray

I think you were trying to be sarcastic, so I am going to reply just in case.

You CAN'T show me a set of S3 or T6 for another class that has 80+ wasted stat points. You might be able to show me 5-10 points at most...but 80+?? Enhancement Shaman are unique to this super awesome gift.

I don't know anything about warlocks since I don't play one, so I am not going to comment on if you actually need int or not.

T6 Warrior DPS set, agility.

Game, set and match.

*edit--Just saw you are "clarifying" it later with it does "nothing" for the class...Yes it does, it regens mana..You find that useless, well 12k HP locks, that survive all AE easily, getting 60 stam think stam is useless.

Why? Because their survival is already so high, 60 stam does nothing...Your 17/5 is useless because your mana regen is already so high..See how they are the same?

Considering most of the warrior pieces don't even give the equivalent of 1% crit and yet if it was crit rating most of them would give between 1.5-2, I can safely say that a bulk of the points were just flushed on a useless stat.

*Edit2- Also, look at the allocation of shield block rating on t5/t6 tank gear..and note that "block rating" is a completely and utterly useless stat...Have fun.

Horse · 11-30-2007, 04:36 PM

Again, that's a DPS issue.

It is realistic to develop like "OK, warlocks are at X dps which is what we want them to be at, but the item still has a crapton of budget left... uhhh, here you go, STA!" and not the other way around.

It's pretty simple to give stats a definite value and then simply set up a simulation to see what ratio of stats is ideal. Problem there is that there aren't massive choices - even though you can socket for customization, it stands to reason that the sockets are balanced based on what the DPS the item's max output is.

Makata · 11-30-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sithray

It stats with an M and ends with an A.....

God please let it be me..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morannon

Makata!

FUCKING SWEET!!

Zehn - Vhex · 11-30-2007, 05:59 PM

I recall a blue post once awhile ago talking about how stats were not set ideally to begin with simply because there'd be no point to itemization then. You'd run into the EQ problem with every time just being "Same shit++"

So they intentionally gimp items to make variety worthwhile.

I think they were moving away from that though, albeit slowly.

Xequecal · 11-30-2007, 07:01 PM

Double post

Xequecal · 11-30-2007, 07:03 PM

You Shaman need to get in line when it comes to fixing gear. Here's a list of useless or near-useless crap Blizzard insists on putting on prot Paladin tank gear:

- Strength
- Intellect
- MP5
- Block Value

Did I mention the Tier 5 Paladin prot set has the worst set bonuses in the game of any set? They might as well not exist. Thanks for the bonus to ret aura that will never proc ever because ret aura doesn't activate on blocks. Oh, and thanks for +100 block value with Holy Shield active. I'm sure that will benefit the all of 2 Paladins in the entire game that have 4pc Tier 5 and still somehow haven't pushed unblocked hits off the combat table yet.

Seriously, can we please get the Tier 4 set bonuses on all the prot Pally sets, please?

Quote:

You CAN'T show me a set of S3 or T6 for another class that has 80+ wasted stat points. You might be able to show me 5-10 points at most...but 80+?? Enhancement Shaman are unique to this super awesome gift.

Tier 6 Paladin prot set, Intellect. At least they didn't fill it up with block value in addition to Intellect like they did on the Tier 5 set.

Also, don't get me started on spell power on Ret Paladin gear.

Alamando · 11-30-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Oh, and thanks for +100 block value with Holy Shield active. I'm sure that will benefit the all of 2 Paladins in the entire game that have 4pc Tier 5 and still somehow haven't pushed unblocked hits off the combat table yet.

I don't think that means what you think it means. Block Rating is +chance to block. Block Value is +amount blocked. So it's like -100 physical damage every 10 seconds.

Which is still depressing.

And yeah, the first bonus manages to be worse.

Esmo · 11-30-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I recall a blue post once awhile ago talking about how stats were not set ideally to begin with simply because there'd be no point to itemization then. You'd run into the EQ problem with every time just being "Same shit++"

So they intentionally gimp items to make variety worthwhile.

I think they were moving away from that though, albeit slowly.

It also allows them to use fewer item levels to provide upgrades as they can take the additional item levels + slightly more optimal stat allocation to achieve a greater upgrade.

Sure there's a finite number of iterations before the allocations become completely optimal but that is when you'll see a large jump in item level and a reduction in overall optimization of stats to allow them to "reset" again.

Northerner · 11-30-2007, 11:34 PM

Never forget though that optimizing your gear may indeed not be in your interest. Since TBC the developers have taken a more and more reactive approach to balancing and if you with optimal gear are producing dps X and raid utility Y then you will be balanced around that expected gear situation. There's no net gain to be had and all you'll lose is the largely useless stats that exist on your present gear.

I'd rather have the free stamina personally. In fact, it's a good part of why I never got too excited about the spell penetration or spirit on Mage gear. It hardly does me any good at all but it beats a big fat nothing in the end. Besides, we all know that Sunwell stuff is going to be min-maxed Naxx style and really shine.

Neferata · 12-01-2007, 02:19 PM

Wow, a lot of retards posting in an FoH thread, how strange. Anyway, you know what taking Mp5 off of my gear would do? It would allow me to actually use mail armor instead of leather. But please list another example of poor stat distribution that applies to your class, like it somehow refutes our argument.

The Ancient · 12-04-2007, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Did I mention the Tier 5 Paladin prot set has the worst set bonuses in the game of any set? They might as well not exist. Thanks for the bonus to ret aura that will never proc ever because ret aura doesn't activate on blocks. Oh, and thanks for +100 block value with Holy Shield active. I'm sure that will benefit the all of 2 Paladins in the entire game that have 4pc Tier 5 and still somehow haven't pushed unblocked hits off the combat table yet.

Take a look at Enh Shaman's 2 piece bonus. What aura do prot pallys use?

Sithray · 05-01-2008, 02:22 PM

GOD DAMMIT!!

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...s4a_linked.jpg

T6 is still broken too. ~190ish raw attack power missing from the set which we easily get back from stealing rog leather.

But you know what? I enjoy this game and will keep playing it anyway

He doesn't mean to hit me, it's only when he drinks and I make him angry. It will get better, I know it will. He loves me.

Antoine · 05-01-2008, 02:25 PM

Like many others have said, it's just a way of controlling how much DPS people do, it's easier to balance gear for one level than talents/spells scaling through all levels of content. Enhancement shaman are just fine, with their DPS and buffs they are more than worth the raid spot.

11-30-2007, 07:01 PM	#52 (permalink)
Xequecal Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,118 -1 Internets	Double post __________________ "I imagine that at this point, Al Gore rues the day he invented the electoral college." Last edited by Xequecal : 11-30-2007 at 07:21 PM.

12-01-2007, 02:19 PM	#57 (permalink)
Neferata Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 530 +2 Internets	Wow, a lot of retards posting in an FoH thread, how strange. Anyway, you know what taking Mp5 off of my gear would do? It would allow me to actually use mail armor instead of leather. But please list another example of poor stat distribution that applies to your class, like it somehow refutes our argument. __________________ Sebudai - Juggernaut - Doomhammer

05-01-2008, 02:22 PM	#59 (permalink)
Sithray Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Manhattan Posts: 112 +0 Internets	GOD DAMMIT!! http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...s4a_linked.jpg T6 is still broken too. ~190ish raw attack power missing from the set which we easily get back from stealing rog leather. But you know what? I enjoy this game and will keep playing it anyway He doesn't mean to hit me, it's only when he drinks and I make him angry. It will get better, I know it will. He loves me. __________________ "The stats don't show a lack of popularity for shaman, they just show a ridiculous popularity for other classes." ~ Tharfur, EU-Forum CM http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....cId=2406108945

05-01-2008, 02:25 PM	#60 (permalink)
Antoine waxes chumps like candles Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 413 +2 Internets	Like many others have said, it's just a way of controlling how much DPS people do, it's easier to balance gear for one level than talents/spells scaling through all levels of content. Enhancement shaman are just fine, with their DPS and buffs they are more than worth the raid spot. __________________

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11-30-2007, 04:36 PM	#49 (permalink)
Horse Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 909 -23 Internets	Again, that's a DPS issue. It is realistic to develop like "OK, warlocks are at X dps which is what we want them to be at, but the item still has a crapton of budget left... uhhh, here you go, STA!" and not the other way around. It's pretty simple to give stats a definite value and then simply set up a simulation to see what ratio of stats is ideal. Problem there is that there aren't massive choices - even though you can socket for customization, it stands to reason that the sockets are balanced based on what the DPS the item's max output is.

11-30-2007, 05:59 PM	#51 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,011 +26 Internets	I recall a blue post once awhile ago talking about how stats were not set ideally to begin with simply because there'd be no point to itemization then. You'd run into the EQ problem with every time just being "Same shit++" So they intentionally gimp items to make variety worthwhile. I think they were moving away from that though, albeit slowly.

11-30-2007, 11:34 PM	#56 (permalink)
Northerner Shiny Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 894 -11 Internets	Never forget though that optimizing your gear may indeed not be in your interest. Since TBC the developers have taken a more and more reactive approach to balancing and if you with optimal gear are producing dps X and raid utility Y then you will be balanced around that expected gear situation. There's no net gain to be had and all you'll lose is the largely useless stats that exist on your present gear. I'd rather have the free stamina personally. In fact, it's a good part of why I never got too excited about the spell penetration or spirit on Mage gear. It hardly does me any good at all but it beats a big fat nothing in the end. Besides, we all know that Sunwell stuff is going to be min-maxed Naxx style and really shine.